Bigger $55: Line check JJ open flatted shallow - MTT Poker Strategy

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Bigger $55: Line check JJ open flatted shallow

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03-05-2012 , 12:47 PM

streetwalkincheeta

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,132

Villain has opened quite a bit, called a lot preflop, no 3bets. I don't believe he's nutted with the flat pre.

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $50 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 40 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

UTG+2: 5,256 (17.5 bb)
MP1: 7,576 (25.3 bb)
Hero (MP2): 4,345 (14.5 bb)
MP3: 14,890 (49.6 bb)
CO: 5,266 (17.6 bb)
BTN: 19,340 (64.5 bb)
SB: 22,063 (73.5 bb)
BB: 9,410 (31.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J

2 folds, Hero raises to 600, 2 folds, BTN calls 600, SB folds, BB calls 300

Flop: (2,270) T

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 896, BTN calls 896, BB folds

Turn: (4,062) 6

(2 players)

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03-05-2012 , 12:51 PM

rotisseur

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,352

i would just shove pre

as played fyl ( serious i dunno )

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03-05-2012 , 12:55 PM

gregz41

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,609

I probably open jam with under 15BB.

As played life kind of sucks when you say he has called a lot pre flop cos that obviously increases the number of AXs combinations.

If this was heads up I would prob just jam turn for value given how you sized the flop and he didnt r/c.

As played I'm not too sure on whats best OTT he didn't close the action OTF so he will have Ax in his range as well as Tx and flush draws. In a vacuum I'm leaning towards thinking that you can bet it all OTT and it will be profitable.

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03-05-2012 , 01:05 PM

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

I kinda want to check call if you think he bets diamonds. I also think it would be more straightforward if you didn't have the Jd.

I'm really not sure but think I prefer the min open than jamming, you'll get called tons in this and that's good with JJ?

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03-05-2012 , 01:16 PM

tboneparte

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Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,378

Pre seems fine to me if we have r/f prior to this at our stack depth. Otherwise just jam.

I Kind of just wanna c/f the flop since I think we get flatted/jammed on a ton and then get put in a ****ty spot on a lotta turns like this. As played I'd prob just stick it in and pray for folds.

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03-05-2012 , 02:15 PM

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

why did you cbet?
dunno what else you could do now OTT besides c/f. he has an ace / better like always.
doubt he folds if you jam

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03-05-2012 , 02:57 PM

FatsoFat6969

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,987

3 ways id start by checking flop here on that stacksize.. and i like the open better than the shove since it looks like ur gonna get flatted a bunch and thats good

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03-05-2012 , 04:05 PM

TomoDaK

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,837

Gregz why would you ever open shove JJ here? frownface

I'd check flop usually, as played usually check/fold

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03-05-2012 , 04:11 PM

gregz41

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for balance on tough tables. But whenever someone mentions balance in these sort of threads they go wildly off topic.

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03-06-2012 , 07:20 AM

#10

bazooka87

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Don't really need to balance early in a soft tournament like the Bigger 55. I don't mind the cbet but I'd probably check flop, as played I'd also just c/f. The way you've described villain it's possible he'd have either an ace or a ten but I think he'd probably bet an ace and check a ten here.

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03-06-2012 , 08:02 AM

#11

Sven2812

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,401

I prefer r/c pre

c/f ott

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03-06-2012 , 08:06 AM

#12

timetowom

banned

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,887

Shoving pre. Don't cbet lol. No need to balance with 12bbs

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03-06-2012 , 08:15 AM

#13

MasterJ009

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,386

Shove pre,
Don't cbet, if you don't intend on getting it in.
Openshove flop, or just ch/f...

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03-06-2012 , 12:37 PM

#14

Keeper1125

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,913

shove pre

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03-06-2012 , 12:40 PM

#15

havenrl

adept

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 830

only play here with 20bb or less is so shove

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03-06-2012 , 12:52 PM

#16

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by havenrl

only play here with 20bb or less is so shove

you don't have a raise fold or raise call range under 20bb's

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03-06-2012 , 01:19 PM

#17

Texas Chuck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

for balance on tough tables. But whenever someone mentions balance in these sort of threads they go wildly off topic.

I like balance like Mary Lou Retton.

Im pretty much always shoving my whole range here but would rather min AQ than JJ if I was gonna.

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03-06-2012 , 01:28 PM

#18

timetowom

banned

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,887

Quote:

Originally Posted by havenrl

only play here with 20bb or less is so shove

This is bad. You can r/f 10bbs if the spot is right.

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03-06-2012 , 03:38 PM

#19

Texas Chuck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by timetowom

This is bad. You can r/f 10bbs if the spot is right.

while technically correct this is probably bad advice to give to 99% of people who might read this thread. Much better to shove in spots where you should lean toward r/f than it is to r/f in spots where you should shove--esp in midstakes.

i mean things you read in hsmtt really dont always pertain elsewhere

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03-06-2012 , 03:40 PM

#20

cjkalt

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Quote:

Originally Posted by timetowom

This is bad. You can r/f 10bbs if the spot is right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

You'd have to have sicko reads to r/f 10bb's... really need it to r/f 15bb's even...

generally like in the spot here its a shove

As played this is now a fold

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03-06-2012 , 09:40 PM

#21

bazooka87

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People shoving pre are missing a ton of value in a tournament as soft as the Big 55

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03-06-2012 , 10:21 PM

#22

FudgeB

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 16

think i only r/c AK, KK+; QQ is close i think but might also just be a jam pre

as played c/f turn

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03-07-2012 , 01:54 AM

#23

Texas Chuck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bazooka87

People shoving pre are missing a ton of value in a tournament as soft as the Big 55

ton of value?

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03-07-2012 , 04:13 AM

#24

dereds

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

ton of value?

what do you think the differences are in the ranges that call a 15bb jam call a min raise and jam over a min raise are?

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03-07-2012 , 04:57 AM

#25

The_Stro_Sho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

what do you think the differences are in the ranges that call a 15bb jam call a min raise and jam over a min raise are?

There are still a ton of smart and semi-smart ppl in these fields who consider a 15bb open hella strong and fold a lot of hands that we dominate or crush that otherwise call a jam. I still r/c here but I doubt we are missing a lot of value if we jam.

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