The table is full of fairly standard $6.50 randoms, but BB has been very very active over the last 5 or 6 hands, and has started to spew a ton. You know that sense you get sometimes when you're focusing on a table that somebody's switch has just been flipped? I get the feeling this guy's switch got flipped in a big way sometime in the previous orbit.

I know we don't have much, and this might be a lol hand, but I'd like to get an idea of who's calling in this spot vs a villain who is perceived to be getting very out of line please.


Poker Stars $6.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (MP): t3140 M = 13.96
CO: t1795 M = 7.98
BTN: t885 M = 3.93
SB: t3370 M = 14.98
BB: t1690 M = 7.51
UTG: t2620 M = 11.64

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is MP with A 9
1 fold, Hero raises to t375, 3 folds, BB raises to t1690 all in

Hero?

i think i call. still got enough to push/fold comfortably if we lose.

I think the reason you raise 2.5bb is not to welcome someone to call or RR, but to take the existing pot cheaply. I'll bet that you thought that your stack of 13BB is way to big to push with A9off.. I would probably fold (keeping 11.5BBs)(I do not know if it's right, but this is what I would probably do) and would wait for the better spot to play against him.. Even if we are giving him 50% pushing range, A9 would be only a slight favorite, but again your stack is not extremely small for you to take a risk at the moment .I think you can afford to fold here .

I'm not raising this PF. I don't think it's wrong, but 6.5 donks tend to do wierd stuff like flat really wide and this isn't really a hand you want action with.

As played, this is a very easy fold.

he has to be shoving like 25% of hands for you to have positive equity against his range.

I don't think there is actually much value in getting into pissing matches with idiots. Having said that, I often do and it's a big reason I suck at STTs.

As played I fold. I'd also never raise here pf. Note his play, and look him up later if your both on the bubble.

-Hiway

I really don't like this raise, especially if BB has been very active and is willing to flat/shove and put us in a tough decision like this

I don't think I ever call in-game with A9 here without some sick read that he shoves over really wide... especially considering you're an early raiser (although he probably doesn't understand how tight you should be here)

Raising here pre is just horrible, at least at $6.50s as said.

And no, no way we are calling here with A9

Could you elaborate plz?

i understand why a lot of people fold this pre, but saying it's horrible is a bit much, we're in HJ with A9..

I'm pretty curious as to whether this is a leak or not. Are people really generally folding this pre?

yeah this is def a very easy fold in my opinion theres no need to risk half our stak with A8 here against a tight ranged BB shove

I don't think the pf raise is standard, but there are plenty of table situations that can make it fine. If your stats say the blinds are always folding and the button is a 3/3 multitabler, for example, then raising here is fine. I'd call it borderline, certainly not horrible.

As for calling the shove, I say no. I'm thinking you can usually find a better spot than this.

There is no way this is a tight ranged shove from BB. I can't provide you HUD stats as I played this session in OSX, but I was only 4 tabling at the time and got to see exactly how the table had been playing out. BB had been reshoving hands like K5 within the last orbit. He'd reshoved every raise for the last couple of orbits. He'd donked off a 4k stack and was probably looking to donk off the rest of it at some point. I was aware of this going into the hand and figured A9o was prob going to be good enough vs him. Are people really just going to sit back and let someone else take the chips that this guy is clearly trying to donate to someone? I have to admit I was *kind of* half looking to get into a spot where he was going to get involved here. I'm not 100% convinced myself tbh, hence the thread.

As a general rule, I'd imagine we're raising A9 from BTN? What about CO?

Sounds like you had a confident read on Villain. Him being a bit of a spew monkey and re shoving really wide.

Even though you believe him to be re shoving on you in this spot really wide, I might be a tad nitty and fold as played.
You have a decent stack and there are shorties too.

I don't think you'll be better than 60/40 against his range.

its like 60/40 for me raising or folding. id def fold to the shove i think

Hmmmm, trying to read this thread from the perspective of me trying to respond to it if it had been posted by somebody else - not helping me with my confusion!

I can totally see why ppl are saying fold on one hand, but there's still a bit of me that's thinking "dude - it's 6 handed, you got a semi-decent Ace in the hijack with a donator in the blinds, and you have him comfortably covered - what's your problem!?!?!"



I'm starting to suspect, judging from most of the feedback, that my compass must have been pretty far off on this one.

at the same time tho we are only 60/40 against a hand like K5 and its for half of our stack...and if its something like QJs or KJs we are 55/45...if he's such a spew tard I feel like we can own his soul in a hand very soon you know. I mean with a sick read I guess its ok...but we are in a good spot with our stack and an obv fav to cash/win so im prob just folding

We'd only be 60/40 vs K5 with AQ aswell though. Would you fold AQ here? I know what you're saying but there's not a huge number of times in poker when we can be confident we're a much bigger favourite than 60% - and even then that's a 20% edge which I always thought was pretty big.

The only reason I'm being stubborn and pushing the issue is because I want to feel confident that there's definitely a good way to play this hand, and at the moment I'm still not sure what that is. Hopefully by pushing the issue more I can get some really convincing arguments going for why this is really a fold rather than a fold just being the safe option....

yeah i mean i guess the right way would not be to raise pre?...idk man with a good read you can pretty much do whatever on the fly you know like Im not saying a call is awful and Im not saying Ive never called in a spot like this...Im just really saying it for the sake of the argument cause i can def see both sides and I dont think there is a blatant right answer either way

I can see an argument for folding A9 if you know BB will shove very wide and you're not willing to call, but openfolding in most games seems more bad than nitty.

Gaz, pf seems fine to me, especially when you're playing with a HUD and have some stats on their ranges.
In this specific spot with this read r/f against this villain seems like a mistake to me.
You need to call 1315 for the 2140 in the pot, which should mean we need about 38% against his range. I suck at these odds/math things, so I only hope I'm correct here.
I think you need to stove this, but if he has lower Ax/33-88 in his range as well this should be a call here imo.

As a side note, always try to be somewhat careful with assuming people may be on 'tilt', as they could just as well have a strong hand here.

I might raise being as I have a few chips, but defo fold pre with normal stack. I also fold with this stack anyway if I know bb is a tardassian. (That's one just for you, Data lmao). As played...really depends just how spewy he's been but if it's crazy ye I'd call.

i like your preflop raise and i dont think its a "leak" because your hand is good enough to raise from MP. Do you have any reads on BB so far? How did he play so far?

If its his first reraise its gonna be a tough call because you are getting a little bit under
2:1 and are probably a bigger dog here.
You are opening from MP which decreases the stealing probability a bit.
I would estimate him doing this with 66+, AT+, KQs... Probably lighter if he expect that you are folding most of your opening hands.

None whatsoever. Only those that I posted in thread title, the OP, and in post #14.