No.

See how easy that is pvn? Instead of dodging the question for 29 pages, you can just answer simple questions.

I dunno, sounds like getting rid of the TSA would send the country into a deadly tailspin. I mean, 9/11 happened before the TSA. Why do you want another 9/11?

Yeah, but it really seems like based on everything I know about liberalism, religion would be made illegal. Don't you think you'd make religion illegal?

* I didn't say taxation was theft. You just assumed that when I pointed out a lot of the arguments against that position were incoherent and/or self-contradictory.

* taxation would be part of the society I would like to see in the short term. I still don't know what a "libertarian society" is and it's completely possible that it could be part of some societies that meet whatever definition you're talking about but not others.

* taxation is in general bad but sometimes it's the least bad from a pragmatic perspective. I know you hate "it depends" answers and want everything to be black and white and fit into your pre-labeled pidgeonholes, sucks for you I guess.

Ah, well as I understand it, free expression of religion is. A cornerstone of liberal societies.

When did I say I hated it depends answers? I just thought you were one of the guys claimin that taxation == theft, bu now that I've finally got you talking, this take seems reasonable.

No, that's just ridiculous. What about the USSR? I often hear liberal types saying extremely radical and negative things about religion. They clearly are looking to ban it.

I explicitly said this earlier. You don't "have me talking" now, I've been doing it the whole time. Apparently the only way to get you to listen is to go into full-on super obtuse mode.

A++++++++

http://www.examiner.com/article/shou...rom-government

Where will the liberals stop?

So what "libertarian" ideas are there that aren't also "pretty much everyone else's too?" Why don't you put some of those forward instead of claiming credit for things like sliced bread? Do you have any?

So now that I've finally got pvn willing to converse, let's try this:

"Taxation is theft!" is not always true.

I think we all more or less agree on this?


I'd describe the USSR as authoritarian rather than liberal. If it helps, I can show you working models of real-world liberal democratic societies.

So libertarians are for religious government? It makes sense to me, based on one of the varieties of libertarian-type things popular in my area.

Right, so after the lols @ libertarian type things from recent postings are finished, back to civil rights laws, American principles, or why/how taxation is not theft.

I mean, there is this long-term plan to win the government by convincing people of how great libertarian ideas are, eh? Anybody wanna explain what's so great about snark, anti-government prejudice, and a collection political language fallacy that can be often repeated, but not thoroughly dissected?

Lol, did you read any part of that other than the trolling title?

"pretty much everyone"???

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156491/am...-negative.aspx

Pop quiz, without googling, name 5 members of congress who support dismantling the TSA. Should be easy if pretty much everyone thinks this is a good idea.

I'm not sure. I mean we can come up with scenarios where people get taxed and actually want it to happen, but when people use that phrase it's clearly a shorthand.

FWIW, I think murder is bad, but I am 100% positive my ideal society would have murder. Sometimes the costs of getting rid of a bad thing are worse than the benefits.

The first step is removing your God (and all morality!) from government. Taken to it's logical conclusion, religion will be banned and Christians will be forced to deny God.

It's enough to have VOTERS who believe it, the politicians don't actually have to enact it.

lol

ah, the old "well you're a jerk on this forum, clearly we can safely conclude you're a jerk all the time and hence nobody IRL will listen to you" argument. Dude, people are snarky to you HERE because you're purposefully obtuse. Are you going to argue that they are obligated to be jerks to everyone IRL (else they're being hypocritical)?

lol

No idea how you're going from separation of church and state to some weird prohibition of religion, nor do I think that's a goal of very many liberals. I don't see what that has to do with Libertarianism, either. I'm assuming the establishment clause is something Libertarians and liberals are both on board with?

Are we not playing "name things that a small minority of a group believe and apply them to the whole group?" Am I misunderstanding the rules?

I am a purposeful poster. See, I know snark like it's payday for doing nothing.


However your posting is almost proph-lite. Make an accusations, obtuse insinuations, put words like jerks and hypocrite in the mouth of meh strawman while handwave anything libertarian-type that is problematic from any given angle as not your problem. Well it is. Go be obtuse about that.

Step one of libertarian-type things reform...learn to handle critical dissection of ideas and blunt criticism without resorting to tribal chest-thumping snarkiness. Really, If you can dish it out at 'the gubberment', damn well be able to take it. Or maybe that hypocrite label might apply. Those darn obtuse whatever-ists never wanna listen...

LOL. Ok, I hope you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

I can take it fine. But after round 200 of you making the same hamfisted "lol hypocrites" arguments, with absolutely zero attempt to actually respond to the other side, snark seems like as good an option as any.

LOL is correct.

Feel free to offer 200 cites of lol hypocrites post of mine. I do not recall often using the word, nor describing libertarian-type things as hypocritical. I don't even find hypocrisy to be that specially noteable unless it is deviously intentional or patently destructive to life.

Accusatory, yes. Overly reliant on generalizations and special logic, yes. Avoiding criticism, yes. I have made these observations and made opinions about these things. Focusing on hypocrisy with regards to these topics is counter-productive. That's not focusing on ideas or behaviors.

Such as believing or considering that tax is theft and then creating the tendency to treat people who disagree like thieves, or being obtuse, or trolling, or brainwashed. I can go in this thread to show this. This is not a judgement of bad, just incorrect. At one point or another this or another dilemma of using a fallacious axiom is going to present itself.

Returns to my early consideration in this thread... What libertarian-type ideas do work and what is missing or incorrect about those that don't?