for those, who might be interested-

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...e-wpn-1636789/

0 new information. WPN hands down most bot infested site right now

Perception is reality, TD

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hopefully Winning_TD doesn't delete this one as well...

This is real and has been brought to the attention of a lot of the WPN high volume PLO cash game grinders. Don't delete this thread. This needs to be dealt with.

This is the reason I stopped playing. Collusion and bots. Too bad.

Wish it was USA only or a few countries. Ban Europe

I posted in the other thread but have a lot of hands with all these guys.

Trashman has a different c betting style then the rest off the top of my head.
I_hold_it plays the most of all those accounts by far.

I have my doubts that they are all bots in the same ring but in sure people smarter then me can figure that out. I feel a few of those accounts play different then the rest

i highly doubt i_hold_it is a bot

At least some people with sense that play these games come here lol. I find it odd that someone would set up a bot ring with such variance in their bots. I mean, 37% SB steal on one and 73% on another? Optimal preflop play has been established, so why would you make a bot deviate so much?

^^ Optimal preflop play has been established? I don't know about that, can you tell me where I can find more info?

I mean, I'm not here to tell you how to play poker. I would assume that a player capable of building an elite bot at any stakes would be capable of optimizing preflop ranges based on known software and general population tendencies.

I find it hard to believe someone would set up a bot with such a low SB steal frequency. Virtually everyone loses money in the SB. Outright folding to BB is -50bb/100. Now he could still be playing enough hands in SB, he might just limp alot. But then he would be deviating from the other "bots" in the ring wouldn't he?

I was only curious since from your statement I get that preflop is somewhat solved. Ty for your reply

You're welcome. Nothing is ever solved. I didn't mean to imply that. But preflop is far more "solved" than postflop.

The reason bot rings do/did exist was because multiple talented people got together. It doesn't make sense for a really good player who also has good technical skills and is able to build a bot to waste that time. The only argument would be laziness, but lazy people usually don't get good at poker.

So now you're looking at multiple people with different skills coming together to do this.. Maybe its only 5 people total but how many have the balls for 1/5th the money to risk so much for so little? They will eventually get caught.

The superusers at UB made sense. Millions of dollars for their crime. Some people can be bought. But for a couple thousand? I'm not saying there aren't possibly bots on WPN or any site. I haven't found them but maybe they just don't play the most popular format on the site, also the easiest one to go unnoticed playing in, while also providing the best cover of "had a good MTT week and won 20k".

Maybe they really only do spread the bots on 5 of the 19 tables of PLO100+ running right now. I don't claim to be an expert.

I don't really see why you think the people who created the bots have a low reward to risk ratio. The people who created the bots to play on the site for themselves biggest investment would be only their time and initial deposit. With rakeback + beast rewards the potential return in their investment is potentially very high. The people who created the bots to sell have almost zero risk as they are not the ones exposing themselves, just the people who purchased their products.

Now I have no idea how bad the bot situation is or even if there are any bots, but for you to say the risk to reward ratio doesn't make sense is wrong.

you're right. not enough money to be made.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...nners-1538509/

1.5 milly? no big deal!

Wasn't WPN supposed to become the "toughest site for a bot to operate on" or something by now?

If the network wants to grow they need to keep it to North America. That's one of the things that gave Bovada/ignition its big soft player pool. Semi-Rec players like myself don't want to sit down w 1 guy from Iowa,1 from Texas, and 3 from Ukraine. Knowing that players from Russia, Germany, and Eastern Europe are in the pool and that they are almost exclusively pros/grinders is such a turn off.

I don't think botting has a low risk to reward, in general.. I think botting PLO on WPN would have to be the dregs of botting. Hence why I question motivation more than relative ability. Ill play $40 bots all day fwiw.

Edit: Honestly Chaos, $1.5 mil is nothing to stars. Actually 1.5 mil might be nothing to WPN too. If a botring is found, i bet there will be reimbursements .

I played a few hands with PLOwned last night. Wake up this morning to I_hold_it and PLOwned playing. Do you guys really think they are BOTS? RJR777 posted on other thread that WPN stated these accounts have all been suspended. If so, why are they playing now?

The way I see it Either WPN could care less or the players in question are not BOTS. Would really like some clarification though.

And here is the problem with your thinking. When you say 1.5 mil is nothing to stars or WPN you are ignoring the fact that they are not the victims, it is the other players on the site that are. And I am not just talking about money taken off the table directly from any bots but by making the games tougher it drives away potential first time players. I mean if you had to chose which site to make your first deposit on would it be a site with softer games or tougher games.

And please don't get into the issue about reimbursements because I know first hand they don't.

Like I said before I don't know about any bots being a problem on the site but your arguments on why it couldn't possibly be a problem are weak at best.

also the whole "i like playing bad bots" argument is just stupid. the bots don't beat regs or even semi regular recs, other than playing for rb they take money from the absolute weakest players, money funnels up in poker not down, so it's like a net that just catches and pockets x% of the money that's supposed to be on it's way up.

there would be enough game liquidity without the bots and the o=playing environment would be better for the bottom X% of players or w/e which is good for everyone else

this is completely ignoring assistance software, not even asking to police that bc there's no way to do it, but they could prevent autobots from playing they just don't care

Why is everything so absolute with you? Why can't you just read? I didn't say it couldn't possibly be a problem. I just said it's unlikely. I made points to this belief.

You're so against everything I say, you've obviously taken something personal and it's really dumb of me to respond or acknowledge you anymore. Guess this is why you can't get anybody to respond to you. I think I speak for everyone at WPN when I say that you're not needed to play on the site (no matter how bad you are) and thus your opinion here should always be ignored because you're not the type of person WPN should care about.

GL ***hole.

Trust me I don't take anything you say personally, I would have to respect you for that to happen. If you want me to take you seriously make some good points not some that you just pull out of your ass. At least then I could respect your point of view.

I agree with the poster above a few posts: I'd be surprised if I_hold_it is a bot, I have a lot of hands with him. Unless the bot was built with a tilting mechanism.

He is by far the highest volume player on the list. The others really don't play that much.

I am almost positive I_hold_it is not a bot. I don't think his style quite fits, he plays more than the others, and I have chatted with him several times.
I say this as someone who wouldn't mind him leaving given that his game clogs up mine, but I just don't like burning people for something they are not doing.