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Old 06-09-2015, 08:57 AM   #1
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News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

Thought this is big enough to warrant a NVG thread, it deserves the attention: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...-them-1537778/


The thread actually gets crazier and crazier towards the end. Basically there seems to be/have been a bunch of accounts crushing MSPLO on Pokerstars that are either bots or programs playing but with player inputs into the client.

I've always been on the "lol bots can't beat PLO!" side but the evidence in the thread is pretty damning. They seem to be operating on 888 too. ANd probably every other pokersite there is.

edit: Random image from thread just to bring something quick into this one

Confirmed human MSPLO winners vs suspected+confirmed bot stats, to show their unorthodox/non-human playing style:
("Squared Euclidean distance")


*

Edit/MH: See
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
The "scientific" way of checking how different 2 accounts are from each other is to measure the distance between their respective stats. I did it for 1 banned bot accounts: BOOTTLEGGER, 3 active accounts from my list: IMissFender,Samanta81,SusaaNIN and 4 legit regulars from PL200: N@T@L@T,Shuller_A1t,Nakamator,Bagrovui. I picked those legit accounts because they have played a lot of hands and are mostly Russian.

The stats of banned bots/alleged bots are here http://i57.tinypic.com/2n84qow.png
I entered them into an excel spreadsheet here:


I will not post the stats of legit players to protect their privacy.

Afterwards I have calculated the distance between those 8 accounts mentioned earlier. I have used "Squared Euclidean distance" for it. It can be found here http://i61.tinypic.com/6ell61.png


Thats the distance between following account pairs in form of a graph



The 6 first columns are BOOTLEGGER,Samanta81,IMissFender,SusaaNiN compared in pairs.

The next 6 columns are 4 legit accounts compared in pairs.

The last column is an alleged bot SuSaaNiN compared to legit Russian grinder N@T@L@T.

Small column means small distance, accounts are very similar, big column means the accounts are completely different.

EDIT: I didnt enter more accounts because typing all of it into excel is a huge pain in the ass. I will put all my research on Google Drive on Tuesday and make it free for everyone to download, including the spreadsheet to calculate the difference between any 2 accounts.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 06-10-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:04 AM   #2
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

The future of online-poker is tournament-poker. Every other format is slowly dying already. Cash-games and SnG's are simply way too static and repetetive to not get destroyed by bots, collusion, or colluding bots.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:19 AM   #3
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

crazy read, hope they all get banned asap.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:42 AM   #4
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooRareToDie View Post
The future of online-poker is tournament-poker. Every other format is slowly dying already. Cash-games and SnG's are simply way too static and repetetive to not get destroyed by bots, collusion, or colluding bots.
I agree except you're describing more like the present, not the future.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:42 AM   #5
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

sick if true. Read the all thread and still no sign from Stars rep?!?
I've always thought Stars is the only place with no bots, now there are a ton trustworthy evidences games are full with bots not only in NL games, but in Omaha too..
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:46 AM   #6
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

what about smaller sites, for example pokerstars.fr, pokerstars.es?? anyone checking those too? if they have such bots available, they may use it on the other sites too.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:47 AM   #7
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopaloopa View Post
crazy read, hope they all get banned asap.
why would stars ban their own bots?
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:55 AM   #8
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

This post is some crazy **** lol http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=311
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:46 AM   #9
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scroosko View Post
why would stars ban their own bots?
As I understand it, the half a dozen PLO bot accounts referred to by OP have been banned by Stars, and (partial?) refunds were given to affected human players.

The problem is, these Russian/Kazakh bots were crushing the game for at least a year and Stars didn't stop them soon enough.
They are likely also crushing on other networks.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:47 AM   #10
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
As I understand it, the half a dozen PLO bot accounts referred to by OP have been banned by Stars, and (partial?) refunds were given to affected human players.

in the other PLO Bot thread (which Schweins Thread is based on), PS even banned Bots before they send an email. Schwein found also other bots (on FT and 888), which have also been banned before the thread was created.

anyway ... sick bots and great work by Grethe, Oink & Schwein
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:51 AM   #11
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

I've spent over 15min reading that thread but still confused on a lot of things, could someone informed please provide some good cliffs wrt to this topic ?
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:57 AM   #12
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

following
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:00 PM   #13
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

about how much monies has the the plo ring taken from the micro plo economy?
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:02 PM   #14
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billburr View Post
about how much monies has the the plo ring taken from the micro plo economy?
Not sure about Micros but these numbers were quoted by OP in the original thread

Thirty five accounts from the botring played a total of 16.6M hands across PS,FTP,888. They made $1.39M net profit and payed an estimated 2.49M in rake (15/c hand). Legit players lost over $3.88M against the bots.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:11 PM   #15
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Re: News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners.

bots/collusion and knowing four or more dead cards everyone else doesn't definitely can be more than enough equity wise to beat everyone at the table as you get to see -EV plays that bots would know aren't at the time (and vice versa turning a normal +EV play into dumping it because the other bots have hand or hands that block the normal good one [and reading an opponents hand--well the bot just folded X and another one folded Y so he can't have X or Y in his range...]). It's the biggest reason why online midstakes + will be tough to sustain in that game. Difficult to root it all out especially because you can run like god in that game over a decent sample without being a bot.

Last edited by wheatrich; 06-09-2015 at 12:20 PM.
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