Don't confuse me opposing some posters here for defending WPN. There many areas where I have stated I feel WPN needs to improve if it wants to grow however the beast is far down on the list. And before you start talking about rec players not knowing anything about rake or how much they pay ask yourself how many players who cash in the beast are pros who make a living off poker. My guess the majority are "rec" players try telling them things need to change, I am sure many are fine with the way things are right now.

Just as a final note don't try to come off as wanting to be the saviour of online poker. You can't tell me that if you cashed in the beast you wouldn't feel right about it and try to give it back. Its simple, if you don't like the way WPN is doing things then don't play there.

You are delusional if you think you have done anything other than vehemently work to discredit anyone who speaks against WPN in this matter. Endlessly repeating yourself while ignoring, literally, every counter point people have made to your joke argument. You are a sad shill who thinks they know everything and puts assumptions into peoples mouths that you have no clue who they are.

Just stop posting please.

I have the right to post what I think just as you have the right not to read it.

I'm not denying your right I'm just telling you the truth. It's sad man. You made your point a month ago. You haven't said one original thought in ages. You just respond to every dissenting opinion with the same copy pasta **** that everyone is already considering then say things like, I bet you didn't even consider... No dumb **** you didn't consider. You're endlessly wrong. So you can keep posting but I'm here to speak out against your bullsgit so be ready for me to bash you over and over after every shifty post you make so that the playing field is even.

You aren't telling me the truth, you are telling me your opinion which is fine because that is the whole point of a forum, not for everyone to band together and have love ins and eat s'mores. So feel free to come at me whenever you want OK bro.

For the last time Frank, IT IS NOT THE POINT THAT REC PLAYERS MIGHT FIND IT OK THE WAY IT IS. THE POINT IS THAT WPN SHOULD NOT BLINDLY **** THEM BECAUSE THEY CAN!!! GEEEEEZ GET IT ALREADY!

Also stating dumb **** like WPN pays for rake back and rake races. It's BS. Players pay for everything, the whole shabang!!!! NO PLAYERS NO WAGE FOR EMPLOYERS, NO BUSINESS!!! GET IT FRANK!!

You just don't get it. WPN runs it business by collecting rake. They give back part of THEIR rake in the form of rakeback, the beast, etc. They don't have to do it but to attract more players they feel it is a net win in the form of increased traffic. So do you get it now?

Its not my opinion at all that you have almost twice as many posts as anyone else in this thread while making the exact same point over and over and over to every different person who posts their negative opinion. These are in fact the truths I am speaking of.

Like I said you are clearly delusional, or maybe a shill on the payroll.

The argument is the beast gives back to the players that don't need it while taking from the players who do. The same argument you have ignored the entire thread, even in the face of the math. You are ignorant/a shill.

Like I said I will be making sure to point out how all of your posts are ignorant trash.

Clearly you have not seen any posts I have made in the past about WPN, you surely would think twice that I am a shill so maybe you are the ignorant one. Regardless you can keep it up because I don't find it offensive in the least. Your comment that the beast gives back to players that don't need it is also ignorant. Many players competing in the beast are losing money at the tables pre rakeback so to say they dont need it is stupid. And one last point to show your ignorance, I have said it a few times now but I am all for having different tiers, promos, whatever but it still doesn't change the fact the beast is a net win for the players. So quit complaining about it since it is a better promo than any other US facing site has going on right now. And if you think I am wrong go take a look at the rake players pay elsewhere and what they get back.

What could you say that would ever trump this thread? more than 25% of your posts are in this thread praising the beast. I guess you would lose if you didn't have the beast the way you defend it and assume that "plenty of players lose pre beast". No one cares about someone who makes the concerted decision to play poker full time and lose. We are talking about the players who don't play enough to cash in the beast but have no option other than paying into the beast. The same point you still don't get. I don't chase promo's, I chase highly profitable games. Your perspective that the beast attracts casual players is horrifically ignorant.

Continuous flaws in your logic where people point it out over and over again and you just ignore it like its only an opinion. No, you are wrong to defend the points you do, that's why people keep saying so.

This isn't even a subject I am particularly passionate about. I made my mild observation long ago. Just the continued pushing of ignorance drives me crazy.

I wish there were a way to filter for relevant posts in this thread. thick with nonsense.

Funny, I feel the same way.

Honestly I don't need to point out any more of your posts because they are all variations of these posts after multiple people tried multiple ways to explain your ignorance to you.

So while you might "feel the same way", everyone else is fully justified with the facts of your ignorance pasted all over this thread from start to finished.

I am glad you are able to pick and chose the quotes you want to try to prove our point, why not quote everything I have posted and then maybe you will understand what I am saying. But do whatever you feel is neccesary dude, I have my opinion and you can have yours. All I really know is I have a knack for being able to see the big picture, not sure I can say the same for you.

havent read the whole thread but i'd have to agree with the tiers being different stakes. why should a micro stakes player be in with a high stakes? that makes it impossible for the micro/low stakes players to get even close to winning any money. so pretty much all our rake is going to the high stakes players.

I think I made some errors in my previous groupings. I also grabbed last week's top 1000 to compare them to this week's.

3-21.....Beast Pts.......3-28......Pts............4-4...........Pts
1-12.......226k............1-11......226k.........1-9..........248k..........
13-34.....225k............12-35....228k.........10-27......229k........
35-72.....228k............36-75....225k.........28-59......224k......
73-126...227k............76-128..225k.........60-109.....226k...........
…..............................129-1k..1051k.......110-1k.....1071
…...............................1-1k.....1947k........1-1k.......1998k

The change created an additional 50,000 Beast points, or $1000. Using my data that is mostly 100-200 nl, the Beast-to-Rake ration is 3.6-to-16.9. Therefore, the increase in rake is in the neighborhood of $5,000. Changing the Beast payouts increased the rake/fees by $6,000 last week.


Here are the Beast points using fixed positions.


3-21.....Beast Pts.......3-28.....Pts........4-4...... Pts
1-12.....226k..................239k................. 304k
13-35...261k..................208k.................24 2k
36-75...233k..................232k.................23 4k
76-131.230k..................237k.................227 k
132-1k....?....................1,032k...............99 0k
Total.............................1,947k.......... ....1,998k

The top 12 players put in all of the increase. The top 12 increased their Beast points by 65,000 compared to the week before and by 73,000 vs two weeks earlier. 13-35 were up compared to last week, but down compared to 2 weeks ago. 35-75 is unchanged. 76-1000 decreased their points by 52,000 week over week.

So does this mean you favor the new payout structure over the old one?

Also, you seem surprised that the top players put in all of the increase. That is the way the new payouts work, it has a trickle down effect. For the guys wanting to stay in the top tiers they need to put more into the beast without an increase in prizes until they reach the next tier and for the top tier there is nowhere to go. I think this can even be improved with twice as many tiers as the competition would increase and the trickle down effect would even be greater.

No, I don't like the new payout. Players 76-1,000 generated 50,000 fewer points. I believe this drop will be permanent while the splurge at the top is temporary. When the bottom stops playing, the top will eventually suffer, too.

Yes, I was surprised by how many hands the top 4 played. But, like I said in another post, there is a pecking order based upon how many tables each can play. I watched Friday as TGS battled all day to get a top 4 finish. In the end, AcesHigh14 forced the top 4 to all play more than they probably wanted. AH14 battled until the last few hours for a top 4 spot. I bet he doesn't this week. After learning the pecking order, if his total falls by 5k – which it could and he would still take the #5 spot - the top 4 might generate 20k fewer points.

There was also an interesting grouping at the $1,000 tier, where 5 players were bunched within 300 points – but all were 1300 or so ahead of Leatherass9. It was like LA9 schooled them. If he takes off and plays max tables, they all hope they have enough of a lead that they can hold him off. If he plays 2,000 more points, 5 more players would play 2,000 more, too. If LA9 plays 2,000 fewer, the school above him could combine for 10,000 fewer.

How much you bet?

they desperately need another level in between 250 and 1k its a ridiculous drop off and makes it impossible for some players to ever make more than 250 and if they do get close the higher stakes grinders will wipe them out in the last few hours. acouple more tiers would fix everything

so much this