Yeah, I guess to some extent, some version of the subservient storyline is brought out nearly every week. From your example, to Big Show crying for his job, to KO begging Shane not to fine him last week.

So what did WWE decide were the 20 matches that define the IC title?

One of them has to be the awful four-way at WM15 that defined the title as a worthless hunk of metal, right?

Valentine
Tito
Savage
Muraco

Should make up the majority of them.

Guessing the HBK/Razor ladder match or Savage/Steamboat are at the top of the list.

By the strict letter of defining the title, I might advocate for Honky vs. Warrior at the top of the list. Savage vs. Steamboat defined it as a great workrate title, but Steamboat of course petered out shortly thereafter. Warrior's win launching him into the stratosphere and ultimately building him toward a torch-passing moment a year and a half later was the most pristine example of someone being able to use it as a launching pad to becoming the next guy (even if Warrior's stay at the top was not a long one). HBK vs. Razor did more to define ladder matches than it did to define the IC Title, but still it obviously merits inclusion on the list as one of the rare IC Title matches with a legit claim to five stars.

Obviously the inclusion of any match after Val Venis won the belt is a farce, but they'll certainly include some after that time.

Steamboat vs Savage is clearly at the top imo. Followed by maybe the Indian Strap Match between Valentine/Santana. They had a great rivalry for the belt.

Savage vs. Steamboat is definitely my favorite to watch. A fair bit of it is up to the interpretation of the question.

Maybe the #1 should be Pat Patterson's inaugural title win in the tournament finals.

ICWUDT

I remember hearing Steamboat talking about the match to Jericho about a year ago. Said that Vince never allowed he and Savage to be physical in any way prior to the match. No tune up matches on house shows or anything. First time they'd ever locked up was WMIII.

Also remember hearing from other people that Ricky's then wife pretty much torpedoed his career in WWE.

This log indicates a whole house show series between them running up to WM III: http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/87.htm

I had definitely been under the impression that they wrestled a lot leading up to that match.

Steamboat said this on Jericho's podcast right around Thanksgiving last year.

https://www.pwpodcasts.com/2018/11/2...ia-match-with/

Yeah I didn’t doubt your recollection, though I guess I’m doubting Steamboat’s. Wrestlers conflate things a lot.

Well, Hogan did slam a 1,000 pound giant on that show too, so I guess you can never take these guys at their word. And I specifically recall him saying they never once locked up, which kind of made Steamboat nervous.

The thing is that we know for sure that they wrestled each other the year prior. It was a Superstars match between them where Savage injured Steamboat's larynx and put him out for a while, which then led to the build that led to WM III. They locked up to start here, in this video that was recorded with just a potato and a lampshade:

I took that to mean they never had the opportunity to test out stuff that would be specific to a grudge match.

It's amazing how off Steamboat's memory must be. Found it. 34-35 minutes in:

"First time I had ever locked up with the guy was WM III"

https://omny.fm/shows/talk-is-jerich...oat-spits-fire

Not an unreasonable theory, but OneOut's link just now refutes it. Steamboat went to pains to put two underlines under the assertion that the two men had never so much as touched each other.

How does he not remember how the angle started? That’s bizarre.

Wrestlers have truly awful memories. I’m sure the head trauma plays a role.

Dunno if anyone here watches 205 Live, but **** that MSG crowd with a cactus.

Being axed apparently.

https://youtu.be/cD06HqJb42w

I'm back on the Network with a new tablet and this promo is now one of my faves of all time

Same

If you pop The Rock, you know you done good. Foley was GOD.

Foley! Foley! Foley! Foley! Foley!

At WM V, Andre the Giant ends up getting disqualified when he openly attacks guest referee John Studd, grabbing him and headbutting him in the back of the head.

Afterward, Jesse raises a fuss and asks why on earth Andre would have been disqualified. Gorilla says, "Well, uhh...because he had the Million Dollar Man come down to the ring!" (All MDM did was come and kidnap Jake's snake.) Jesse calls the whole thing a miscarriage of justice.

Despite it being in plain view, it's somehow as though both announcers just didn't bother noticing Andre blatantly attacking the referee, so they had no idea how to discuss the disqualification.