But it is full kill in the jackpot games while it is half kill in 20/40 and above.

Just had a player who was on a 3 month ban come back. I imagine he was playing a ton of 8/16 at Gila River in the time off. Every kill pot he had to post in 20/40, he was trying to post 8 chips instead of 6 out of habit. So I can clearly see an issue with it between 8/16 Hold'em and Omaha being a killer for the rule below 20/40.

So maybe only non jackpot (or half kill) games can have this new rule? Because it is a bit harder to determine at full kill games when a raise in a non kill pot is the same as a call in a kill pot. Seems to open up an even bigger can of worms there.

Hmmm seems like I need to plan a visit to AZ to play in these games

That's why I voted no but not DC's way. I'd rather they get rid of kills altogether (if I ever play there again, that is). I hate kills. It's hard enough to win two pots in a session without me having to give some of it back. The few times I've had to post a kill, I've seriously considered just racking up and leaving.

or maybe not

Pot sized triggered kills > making it for 2 pots in a row. The former doesn't punish loose play, it actually rewards it just a little and makes the game as a whole a lot bigger.

I would certainly support a rule that says that in 2-chip/4-chip half-kill games (at CAZ) a 4-chip action pre-flop would be considered a raise.

Most of my limit play is low-limit, and most of my kills are full-kills, so it's not nearly as much of a problem. [Lots of people trying to raise or just call for the wrong amount - but not a 4-chip/6-chip problem...]

I've also played with people that put out $80 knowing it's a kill then pretending like they didn't and they meant to raise. Then they get to limp with an average hand because nobody will raise light if they accidentally limped their UTG opening range.

Kind of nice to be able to limp 67s UTG and have utg+1 fold AJ.

Wow, for all the hours I've logged at 20/40, I've never thought about that. I'm sure it has happened and I have just never picked up on it.

Getting rid of the kill at CAZ is a non-starter.

I must be missing something bec I think that having the leg up makes many starting hands less/unprofitable and I tighten up a bit when I have the leg up button. I'd like it if you could expand on your statement.

I think the two of you are in agreement. Pot kill based on pot size means there's no leg up; you're just killing if you win a big enough pot. Makes multiple kills in a row more likely. 2-pot kills do in fact punish loose play, because of the cost of winning a pot once you've got a leg up.

Yeah.. pot sized kills with the kill getting last action preflop is the way to go imo.

If DMW had put it as 'single-pot pot-sized' (as is the case at CAZ's 0/8 game) I would've understood. My confusion stemmed from the rule at CAZ's LHE games that the 2nd pot has to be at least 10 SBs, net of rake.

I always do as well, so I don't fully understand this problem and maybe I'm just not getting it.

Surely nobody is dumb enough to fall victim to said angleshooting more than once?

They fall for it regularly. I'm not sure how you (or I) avoid it.

You are talking to someone. You check your cards, and put out a raise, but don't verbalize because you don't want to interrupt your neighbor.

Someone says, "isn't that a string?"

You look up, and realize that it's a kill pot. Dealer says "that's a call". The person who called it, often a dealer playing in the game, smirks, happy they can see the flop and crack your big pair for half price.

It wouldn't happen nearly as much if players didn't treat playing poker as a social activity. If they would just focus on the game and never make small talk with others they'd think clearer, get more information, and play better. They would also find it less enjoyable, and more stressful.

So what do we want, a single table full of coldly alert players doing their best to win?

Or multiple happy gambling tables where people are having a good time playing poker hanging out with old friends and making new ones?

When I first started playing O8, I had a habit of just tossing my chips into the middle like I do in LHE. (In my room, the etiquette, if not the rule, is that you stack your chips to make it easier to chop the pot. Not sure how universal it is.)

The first time I did it, I was reprimanded by the dealer. A player spoke up in my defense, noting it was my first time. My apology was quickly accepted, although I didn't realize how big a deal it was.

The second time I did it, I was again reprimanded by the dealer, and my apology was not so quickly accepted. I realized this was truly annoying and 100% my bad.

The third time I did it, I tossed the dealer a $1 chip and said this was my incentive to stop being a ****-up. Everyone got a laugh and that was the last time I had to self-impose a punitive tip - I watched my own play like a hawk.

Now, it's more or less as natural as splashing the pot.

I tend to, and semi-expect my conversational partners to, stop conversation when in a hand. I thought this was standard.

[n.b. I don't play higher than 6/12 at CAZ.]

Isn't the player pool in 20/40 pretty small? Can't you all just conspire to beat the string-bet callers senseless with a lead pipe*?

[And by lead pipe, I mean some sort of non-lethal, legal alternative.]

So I barely play LHE, but I saw this angle go down a few days ago in the 40/80. It just reinforced the image that I and most other spread limit players have of the limit games. (that they're full of angle shooting regs that should know better)

I don't play enough limit to vote on it, but just thought I'd throw out my perception of the game.

Mark

voted yes. There's so many scumbags that pull this crap, and so many idiots who don't pay attention I think it's needed.

Pretty sure I'm an idiot who doesn't pay attention.

confirmed

I voted yes don't like the solution. I would have the dealer ask the player in Kill pots if his larger than call but not quite raise bet was in fact intended as a raise or a call.

I don't play at CAZ but often wish I did.

There's a prob w/ that also: players puts out 2 bets, couple folds, dealer aks 'raise?', player says yes. There's really no good solution.

I'm going to guess nothing is going to be perfect here.

But in the bigger games where there are a lot of regulars, if the correct behavior is to ask what the intent was before action proceeds, then as a default the regulars will be saying "is that a raise?" immediately after seeing the wrong amount of chips go in, instead of "string raise string raise!!!"

That was my thought as well. The 20/40 pool isn't that deep...

I'm rethinking my yes vote bec I now see that by closing one 'angle' we'd be opening up a different, more dangerous one. At least the way it is now the player that gets 'angled' by the clamor of 'string raise, string raise' only has himself to blame while w/ what I said could happen allows a worse angle opportunity.