Smarties don't need to pay attention obv.


No you don't

I've been trying to promulgate Bostick's Law of Angleshooting for years: Every rule change intended to block a particular angleshot opens up an opportunity for another angleshot.

Case in point: the String Raise rule itself: intended to block someone from gauging reactions to their supposed call before putting in the raise, it is generally enforced in circumstances far removed from this, most often to punish newbies.

And let's not get started on IWTSTH....

They put Palimax in charge here, you realize... We are going to see the hand.

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Where is the worse angle?

And another crisis is averted . . . I am going back to bed.

I resemble that remark.

I voted yes to your proposal, but I really dislike kill games. Also, I always vocalize my action, and then ask, "How many chips do I need to do that?"

good for you.

Of course, you are always drunk.

In my defense, I'd be just as confused if I was sober.

I had a good laugh when DC had this pulled on him last night/today. I was next to act and I sat there quietly and folded my hand, knowing it was going to be called, and sure enough.

If your next to act, why not just ask DC what he meant to do, since he and others would likely extend you the same courtesy? A string bet will less likely be called when there is not yet action behind.

What are the choices for the new rule?

1. First in puts in what would be a raise w/o the kill on. Dealer makes him raise instead? Player says that he didn't want to raise. This procedure doesn't work.

2. First in puts in what would be a raise w/o the kill on. A few players fold behind before dealer gets the chance to ask if that player intended to raise. Now that that player has much more info a call can be turned into a raise. There's the new angle.

I was testing the theory of the post he made. I didn't call it myself, so that is something to be proud of.

Yeah, I can see noobs falling for this but if you're playing 8-16 or higher c'mon. I mean there is a certain responsibility on the player to understand the action to you before you act.

2) wouldn't be allowed. it would always be a raise. in a 4 chip/8 chip players almost never put out 8 chips in a single motion without intending to raise. If they put out 7 chips or less, then reach back for more, its a call.

And if confused by the kill, they have the same option to announce "call".

The new rule creates no angle at all. It's the exact inverse of the situation we have now, except players put in 8 chips intending to raise happens about 100 times more often than they put in 8 chips intending to call, so the problems with the new rule should be correspondingly smaller.

And if there is concern about rarely forcing a player to raise who didn't intend to, they could also be offered the option to call by forfeiting the extra 2 chips into the pot. But I don't think that would be necessary, remember if a player puts 9 chips out, they raised. the new rule is only a 1 chip difference.

If you think only noobs fall for it, you aren't observant. Sadly I proved that in the middle of a long session this morning.

And good games thrive by attracting new players. Making it easy to follow the rules is part of keeping the games accessible to noobs, who are really important to future game health. Allowing regs to angle new players drives them away. If you read the thread you'd know this rule is a big reason the limit games at CAZ are viewed as infected with angle shooting regulars by noobs and outsiders.

So if someone was calling the kill bet you would force them to raise? That makes no sense at all.

Kind of like saying I stood by and did nothing during a crime. Ive been very proactive at trying to protect players intent to raise, regardless of who they are, and explaining to angle shooters how damaging their angle is to their games.

If someone puts out 8 chips, do you want to let them choose whether to call or raise?

Does anyone ever put out 8 chips without intending to raise?

Edit: if the new rule was that the dealer has the player clarify whether he is raising or calling, I'd be fine with that as well. There really is no angle created, it's more flexible, and it solves a big problem.

When I want to limp into an 8/16 kill pot, I put out exactly 8 chips.

Yes a few of us still believe in limping into a limit HE pot.

And I love you people so much.

Obviously I'm taking about the half kill games. Does anyone put out 8 chips in a 20/40 or 40/80 game without intending to raise? Almost never.

In the 8/16 it's a whole different problem because a kill pot call is the same as a normal pot raise, so there is no way to differentiate between an intended raise and intended call. So short of changing the 8/16 to half kill, my proposal can't work in those games.

If management is struggling with finding a solution they feel comfortable with in the mean-time I"d propose they institute a code of conduct for poker room employees playing in the games. Obviously employees should not engage in conduct detrimental to the games, and specifically they should not be allowed to call string raises in this specific situation (4 chip/ 8 chip game with 6 chip/ 12 chip kill, player puts out 8 chips to raise in single motion).

This angle is a plague and it's perpetuated by use. The less it's called, the fewer victims will learn to use it against their tormentors, and hopefully it can start to die out on it's own. Good players do not perpetuate this angle, and neither should dealers and poker hosts.

Until Management comes up with a final solution I have another option we can institute as players. I probably start more short handed games than almost any other player in the casino. In those games my policy has always been to never object to the kill being put in or out (obviously the kill is always beneficial to me, but I"d never impose it if any players objected).

But from now on I'm going to object to kill, and I only need one other player at the table to object with me to ensure it never goes in. I would like to boycott kill games until a more player friendly solution to this angle is implemented by management. The extra EV of playing bigger against worse players who don't adjust correctly to the kill simply isn't worth it. Especially since it creates a divisive angle that is driving away casual players like NoSup4U that I enjoy having in my games.

Sorry, I didn't know you were referring to half kill games only.

Still I would err on the side of strict enforcement of the rules. That's the best way to combat angle shooting.

Don't be silly; Kurt Gödel proved this isn't true in 1931.

I like the current rule better. I feel players will be more upset when the are forced to raise when they meant to call. Also having a different set of rules for kill pots is not a good idea.

FYI: pigbot is not just some random, his opinion matters a great deal.

FYI: I am a random opinion generator.