You can't compare the Borgata to Sands or any other PA or AC casino. The Borgata is in a class of it's own. You can't even compare it to any single Vegas casino in terms of game selection.

The Borgta knew how to make the most of poker and make themselves a true poker destination. Most other casinos won't bother because they know the majority of their income comes from other games.

I couldn't agree more - however it's worth mentioning that the Borgata filled an obvious void that was missing in AC, as many of the pre-Rounders-movie regs from the Taj and even the Trop for some reason weren't thrilled at the late 90's poker boom, then the early 2000's Moneymaker boom. Because of this many if not most of the games aside from NL hold'em were tossed to the side because the player demand was so geared towards NL. When the Borgata opened they had it set to be not only a premier hotel, but a premier card room, one which was so popular so fast it quickly had to be expanded and moved within the casino. The physical location of the casino was in such a way that boardwalk access is all but hidden from those who don't know better, so they needed to ensure that people would actually come, and not drift from casino to casino in the way that most do from say Showboat to Taj to Ceasers and so forth.

The Borgata managed to appease the Internet players and the "old-timers" with the variety of games spread and the room itself. Sands might be able to do this if they can get more players, but will always be a step or two behind Parx due to the population immediately around the area.

The Sands has great potential and I think they will surprise us in the future. They're currently grossing about 850K+ per month in rake so they're definitely turning a profit through poker. If you built it they will come.

The Borgata has peaked - revenue is way down and players are opting to play closer to home. In 2 years, PARX and PA Sands will probably peak further crushing the AC casinos.

BTW, the best poker rooms are Commerce and Bike in LA, Foxwoods, then the Borgata. In 2 years, PARX will pass Borgata. I wager within 10 years, there will be a poker room very close to NYC which will become the largest poker room on the East coast and maybe the U.S.

As someone who's worked in the gaming industry for 8 years I can say there's not any rationale for PARX surpassing Borgata. New casinos tend to stabilize very quickly and not ramp up over long periods of time. The Sands may see an incremental increase with the addition of the hotel.

There is, however, growing support for the NYC area casino, with legislature now expected to pass in 2013.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/t...fHoW7l0HFn1qBN

The rationale is that gambling is becoming more about closeness to major population rather than legacy gaming areas like AC or Vegas. I may be wrong isn't the PARX room already bigger than most rooms in AC and Vegas after only being open for 14 mos? I'll wager if the Revell opens a poker room, PARX will surpass the Borgata in terms of poker action.

Only in the summer months will the borgota even be close in vol. to the PARX...but the gaming ind. is right in that is does all level out quickly...just like ur 1/2 nl room at the SANDS.

Prob unlikely to get a straight answer. Usually what get you thrown out is trying to hide chips you shoulda paid out or disrespecting/threatening the dealer/floor.

Luv to hear what it was.

You are correct that proximity is a huge factor. However after 14 months the people that want to drive less are already doing that.

If Revel opens a successful poker room I'm sure that would hurt Borgata, but that's more about AC canibalization and not really PARX surpassing Borgata. PARX is already as big as its going to get.

Living in NYC, if I have only a limited amount of time I will always make the shorter drive to the Sands. But if its for an overnight or weekend trip I'll still go to AC since the action is generally better (more casual players that dilute the regulars) and also the games run consistently through the night (at the Sands the 2/5NL almost always breaks). So for me, there are other factors besides proximity.

5/10NL table started around 4 today, BBJ hit last night on a 2/5NL table.

Confirmed with floor, .70 / hour is the comp for those who were wondering. If you're seeing slightly more chances are it could be a dealer mistake (in your favor) not clocking you out of Bravo fast enough.

Mike,
You're wrong about the comp, at least for 2/5 NL. I play there about 20 hrs/week and I'm consistently getting $1 per hour. Maybe on 1/2 it's $.70 but for 2/5 it's $1.

Anyone else tired of paying $1 for bbj? Two things keeping me from going to Parx all the time instead of The Sands. 9 player tables and tolls to get down there. I live in Northern NJ so the distance for me is the same to either casino.

I have been getting $1/hr in comps for $1-$2 NLHE on a regular basis since early August. While I don't play often, my sessions are long enough where I would notice any dealer 'overage'.

Only if you log in with a Blue card do you recieve the 1$ comp rate...Will say not sure about 2/5 game.

Here for the first time... very nice casino. Going right now in the room 7 1-2, 2 2-5, 2 5-5, and a 5-10. Not bad.

How's the traffic on rt 78 in nj, due to the construction been? (Daytime hours, 8am to 3pm)

Only a fish, who doesn't understand poker, would prefer 10-handed.

It's been quite a few months since I last visited this thread. I play at the Sands VERY regularly and probably know the face of every regular based on limits and type of game they choose. The last 400-500 posts in this thread bring up a lot of fun things to day dream of what might lie in store for the future of the Sands casino, especially the poker room. First there are many things outside of The Sands and PA Gaming laws that will directly have an influence on the progression of the Sands as an entity.

Positives:
1. Yes, players within a suggest "60 mile radius" seem to choose Sands as far as residents from Northern NJ and Western, NJ are concerned.
2. Every new month that I've played here, since I'm still not used to playing casino poker, I'm still amazed at the new faces that I see on a regular basis even in the $2/5 games (and assuming this naturally holds true to the 1/2 level as well.)
3. Poker is still VERY new to PA residents who have never dabbled in online poker prior or found any interest to play poker in AC/Delaware. I still think there are more and more people who will be finding the enjoyment of poker for years to come still in PA (as well as to those who are still too young to gamble legally).
4. As a local resident of the area, the Sands and it's surrounding environment in South Bethlehem do not seem as inviting to tourists as it would taking a trip to AC, or maybe even down towards Philly for a night or 2 (for obvious reasons). However, I think with all the land that the former Bethlehem Steel used to own, there is SO MUCH room to expand for other business ventures to move into South Bethlehem and nearby areas for years to come still. Perhaps there will be more places to hangout other than just the casino during the day and before night sets in, where the casino would naturally take precedence.

Negatives:
1. Yes, there are still "just" 1 million people living within the Lehigh Valley and it's smaller suburbs, but this doesn't compare to the nearly 6 million living within the greater Philadelphia region, which will always inhibit it's growth as a casino.
2. Sure, the general area that the Sands is situated in, in relative terms to the Valley, may not seem like a poor area by any means, but there isn't any real flourishing industries in the area that house a thriving economy (like the Bethlehem Steel used to employ the 100's of 1,000's of people over the decades.) Finding more people to continually have more and more extra money to spend outside their jobs are far and few between, having some sort of economic backbone would definitely help the nature of the games thrive for years to come.
3. Suggestions that NY legislatures are trying to begin the process of making live poker legal in NY may prove to be the deciding factor of the overall state of PA gaming outside of Philly, and I don't see how this could reasonably help the Sands in the long run, only create more competition to current visitors.
4. On a more micro scale, the Sands still DOESN"T have any sort of true nightlife either in the casino or the surrounding area (within a mile or two). A true nightclub could really be used in the Sands and make it more of an experience for first time tourists, however, being as local to the area as I am, I know most of the places people my age like to hangout anyway, so that's not really an issue to me, but for a casual tourist, I would think the Sands is actually boring on a typical weekend night.

But to the guy "chefs" or w/e who continually considers the Sands just a "1/2 room" is just ignorant. As the years wear on, players who may continually win but don't play just quite enough to move up quick enough, will finally start working there way up through the ranks. Games will become more abundant in the future and there will be a higher and growing demand for bigger games, I just don't think it'll grow at the rate of nearby counterparts as in Philly and the Borgata did in AC.

I wish they would have 6 handed games, would be a much better game IMO. People at the omaha table always get upset when it is not playing full ring. I do not understand the logic myself. I would rather play it 6 handed and be able to play a real game and also be on half rake. I fully agree that 10 handed sucks. Any more word on expansion date? Any other games going off lately other than usual NLHE?

Sands Player...I got to say we all are enjoying the larger choice of games at the Sands ( Joke ) now that there opened well over a year. OH and by the way we are all enjoying all that great Tournament play at the Sands, just like the other casino's poker rooms that have been opened for a shorter period of time...1/2 house thats it and will always only be that.....

This would be a crushing blow to the Sands. However it won't go to a vote until Nov.2013 and even if it passes would be several months afterwards before the tables actually opened up.

Months? NYS legalized video lottery terminals in 2001 ... and here we are 10 years later still waiting for the Aqueduct Racino to open. The culprits in the latest delay are apparently a group of pigeons that made poop all over the place.

It will take years to cut through the red tape and actually build the things.

The place doesn't need tournaments.

Maybe, maybe during the week, but if those 23 tables get full on Friday & Saturday, no need to try and squeeze in tournies when the room makes more money per table with a cash game than it does with a tourney table.

And maybe the room doesn't have a weekly 20-40 stud or 20-40 LHE game like say, Chester somehow gets, but for that room to have a couple of 5-5's and a 5-10 on a random Wednesday night is more than what a good number of rooms can say they have as far as higher limit action.

Greetings grinders, are there any players in the Lehigh Valley/Pocono area willing to give a ride to a fellow ginder to the Sands Bethlehem? I live right off highway 33, so a player coming down from the Poconos using 33 would be ideal. We can talk about gas money and days to the casino if you get back to me. Look forward to hearing from some Rounders.

A few comments:

-There are 4.5+ million in Northern NJ alone, so Sands is more about being close to NJ/NYC than being in PA.

-Sands has some competition with Mt. Airy but that is getting less and less.

-AC still has more of a "destination/party" atmosphere so those rooms will always be busy on weekends.

-Sands will deal most games if you have the players, 1-2and 2-5 NL just seem to be the most popular games at this time in the poker world.

- Sands Poker is only 15 mos old - give it time to mature!!