According to a previous post, the live dealer buyin for 2/5 is $200-$1000. I thought the PokerPro buyin for 2/5 was $500-$1000 (not 100% sure though). Maybe that accounts for the high interest in the 2/5 live dealer games.

Might want to log online and check your offers at the TR website...I've had the same thing happen in the past where I didn't receive anything due to some issues with the post office.

On a different note, while Roger is certainly the most vocal and active supporter of pokerpro ITT, I think the vast majority of regular and semi-regular players at Cherokee prefer the PP tables. Most of the people complaining about them either have never tried them, or have played on them once and refuse to go back. Personally I have a hard time believing there's enough loose money out there to justify all the costs from switching to live cards, but I guess we'll see how it plays out in the long run

They'll be making this switch for both live dealers and PP games? If so, that's effectively a 25%-50% decrease in comps with no associated changes in costs or profitability (save subsidizing the live tables perhaps.)

Yeah, I was hoping that was the case but sadly no. They just decided to stiff me this month. In the middle of a fruitless email exchange with them now. They are attempting to explain it to me without using any details. They best I can get so far is "We have evaluated your play for the past 6 to 12 months, and rest assured, you received the correct offer value.." and "Keep in mind that any time there is a special event at the property, the marketing team may opt to change offers based upon expected patronage." Never mind that a couple of months ago I made 16,700 tier credits in one overnight stay.

Harrahs. Sometimes I love 'em. Mostly I hate 'em.

The vegas rake standard for 2/5nl tends to be $5/half hour time drop. If Cherokee could migrate to that type of system, even if it charges $6-$7/half, it would be so much better for everyone:

1. Saves time from dealer having to rake individual pots.
2. Rake is actually fair enough for regs to want to play. Crucial during inevitable slow times when it takes just one or two guys quitting to break an entire table.
3. Lets upper management more accurately assess the profitability of the game (okay we had four 2/5nl games that were each 9 handed full at 99% of the time for 12hrs that's 9*$5*4*24 = how much expected revenue.
4. PUNISH the damn nits who see very few pots and win even less of them to pay equal rake for taking up a valuable seat. This is just my preference ;-)

On a side note, I don't think it will be possible for these new dealers to be able to manage a PLO game anytime soon. By soon I mean anytime 2013. $925 in the pot, player 1 bets $500, player 2 raises to $1500, player 3 asks how much to pot and pots (dealer calculates the pot amount allowed), player calls all in for less, player 2 repots all in and has player 3 covered, end result is a split pot and dealer's head explodes. ;-)

I think you are 100% correct. Probably right now the dealer heads are exploding when on NLHE with three players left, and the short stack goes all in, the other two are playing a side pot.

Then when dealer makes a big mistake, the player's heads will explode.

my two cents on the first weekend of live cards at cherokee

I started play on Friday night about 5:30 and played until 9:00 am, took a few breaks for a total session of 14 hours, averaged 18 hands per hour and it was one of the most brutally miserable poker sessions of my life. I'm not blaming the dealers for being almost completely incompetent, but unfortunately they were. I fault Management for this, AND I think Management should have gone rake free for the first weekend because basically the players are providing the training ground for the dealer pool. However, I did manage to eek out just over $40/hr because a quarter of the players had probably never actually played poker in a casino, in comparison to the $55/hr I have been making on the 1/2 nlhe pokerpro tables (obviously small sample size I know but its a comparison). Both of which pale in comparison to the real gem of Cherokee, the 1/2 plo pokerpro table.

I stopped in again on Sunday night from 9 pm until about 5 am, game had sped up to about 20 hands per hour (but the game played short handed a lot) and ended up battling back from a couple coolers to break even for the night. The only thing worse than the $7 rake was the dealers and the only thing worse than the dealers were the players. So, its kind of like a poison pill that "feels" like I have to play to pick up the easy money, but with the rake and the dealers, its probably a better $/hr value to play 1-2nlhe on the pokerpro tables.

I am not sure who wrote the "rules & procedures" for the poker room but they overlooked a tremendous amount of how a poker room should operate. One of the biggest things that drove me nuts the whole time was the way the dealers are forced to treat all the money like it is the casino's. FFS, its the players money and trust me the players will make sure you arent stealing any of it. Its not like the pit where you could be palming $100/$500/$1000/$5000 chips out of the rack, and I can tell you right now security cameras dont usually give two ****s about what happens in the poker room because of this. So, loosen up the reigns and it will be more enjoyable for everyone.

Also, I know its new and stuff is gonna change but I swear it was like a new set of rules with every dealer change but I dont know how to fix that other than continuing to refine the rules and trying to push that information to at least the floor so they can continue to straighten out the dealers.

I was told the decision to "pool" dealer tips was made because it wouldnt be fair to keep for dealers to keep their own tips because most of them suck so bad. This really sums up my thoughts on the planning phase of the live games. Dealers keep their own tips in poker because unlike the pit, they are actually providing a service and players cant just pick up and go to a new table when a ****ty dealer shows up. It was also gross to see fish tipping off $10-$15 on big pots to a dealer pool that should not be allowed to deal cards without someone qualified standing right behind them.

The more I think about it the more pissed off I get. Several dealers stated this was the first time they had seen an auto shuffler or the player tracking system because all of their "training" had been done with a hand shuffle; ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE! FFS, I heard there was a dealer pool of about 60 dealers trained for poker. How do you not sit them all down at the "real" tables you are going to be dealing at and have them all play poker with tourney chips for a week or two and take turns dealing? And making change? And running chips? And counting the rack? And checking players in?

One great comical line I heard was the floor telling a dealer to make sure and check someone in as a "guest" if they didnt have a players card because it was the only way he could tell if there was an open seat... I was like WTF??? you can see all the tables from the podium AND there is only five of them to begin with... But hey rules are rules...

I'm still not sure if you are allowed to buy the button (pay the sb and bb at the same time if you miss the bb so you can get the button) but we talked several dealers into letting us do it Sunday night; but you can post both blinds after the button passes (some dealers really struggled with the missed blind concept). Still no Mississippi (button) straddle yet, but they mentioned adding it. Cash does not play but you can put it on the table and ask for a chip runner and it will play (they will give you lammers while they run for chips).

In all reality, the best way to sum up the current 2/5 nlhe "live cards" game at cherokee is a really juicy home game with a really high rake and everybody takes turns dealing. But you gotta milk the cow before she goes dry.

To those "hoping" for 1-2 nlhe "live cards" I have no idea how that game would be even close to beatable with a $7 rake and tipping $1-$5 per hand because the majority of the fish are going to buy in for $100 at a time. The average 2-5 buyin was 200-300 for the fish, 500 for decent players and 1000 for good players if a few fish had already hit their gutshot straight draws.

I do want to give credit to a few people, there was one dealer last night/this morning that had dealt poker before and omg was it glorious when she was in the box; it was like real poker with real cards and everything but no cocktail servers... And the floor seemed to be doing the best they could with limited room for flexibility within the rules and procedures. I just pray they dont add a badbeat jackpot drop to further dwindle the poker economy...

Dealers for WSOPc are poker dealers from other casinos. They do this several times per year at other stops.

I wish they'd set aside some PokerPro tables to run $60-120 sit n go's with a better structure 24/7/365. I think those would be popular.

The Vegas 2/5 games are raked each hand not a time drop.



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My 2 cents worth: All who could not get to cherokee for debut of live 2-5 owe u a big thank you for excellent post/analysis/opinions.

Maybe some smaller rooms rake but my experience has been time drop although I don't play too much 2/5 when in Vegas anymore.

So for the people there right now, are there a lot of empty tbls where they could be spreading some live 1/2 games not on the machines? Or is the interest just not there?

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It is established that only a few live dealer tables total and none for 1/2. Don't think interest is the issue. It's just been stated many times by management that they will only use the tables for "high stakes".

Since the 2/5 live dealers games are $200-$1000 buy-in, and 1/2 PokerPro is $100-$500 buy-in, I don't see why someone would be worried about the extra $100 needed to play the live dealer 2/5 game if they really wanted to play with live dealers.

I am new to this site, probably because someone helped me where to go to find what I wanted. To what you are saying here, I completely agree. I used to deal "home" games in Charlotte and I was excited when they passed live cards. The casino is looking to have table game dealers deal poker games, and I told them they are insane. Poker players don't have the patient like table game players do. We all know that poker players have time limits and table game players don't. This will hurt the casino's image from a poker player's point of view until something happens. I think that is a casino for you, since they make more money off of table games then they do on poker.

The town of Cherokee is in the middle of nothing North Carolina. I am pretty sure if there were dozens of poker dealers with years of experience like Vegas lining up for jobs then Harrah's would've hired them. But instead, the available local population of potential dealers have little to no experience at poker nor table games. It's not a high paying job so don't expect a ready elite workforce. The focus should be on dealer performance and improvements over time. Evaluate and keep the ones who become competent.

Could someone give me a good estimate on what they think the prize pool will be for a $365 buy in nl hold em event for the wsopc, & a estimate on how many entrants?

http://www.wsop.com/schedule/wsopcircuit.asp

You can check this link and get the results from other circuit events from the last year for similar events and buyins.

good luck

Prize pool will be $300 x number of entrants. We are not clairvoyant, and therefor don't know how many people will register for each event, since there is no "real" WSOP-C history at Cherokee to go by. Structure for events is posted on WSOP-C website.

I dont see Cherokee on the Bravo system, either online or via the phone app

Bravo app will be great for future. I use it a lot to decide if I want to head to WV or IN to play.

Here are some numbers thru the course of the year for the WSOPC that give an idea of number entries and 1st/2nd/3rd place payouts.

I referenced the first event, the Omaha, the Re-entry, and the main event.

Anybody still up for over/under on first event? Im going with 313 entries in event 1 Harrahs Cherokee.

Aug. 9-20, 2012 IP Casino Resort & Spa (Biloxi, Miss.)
event #1 $365 nlh 202 entries / 15k/9k/7k
event #3 $365 plo 78 entries / 8k/5k/3k
event #4 $365 nlh re-entry 461 entries / 30k/18k/13k
main event $1675 nlh 300 entries / 108k/67k/48k

Sept. 13-24, 2012 Horseshoe Bossier City (La.)
event #1 $365 nlh 293 entries / 21k/13k/9k
event #3 $365 plo 142 entries / 11k/7k/5k
event #4 $365 nlh re-entry 663 entries / 41k/25k/18k
main event $1675 nlh 405 entries / 133k/82k/60k

Sept. 27-Oct. 8, 2012 Horseshoe Southern Indiana (Elizabeth, Ind.)
event #1 $365 nlh 265 entries / 19k/11k/8k
event #7 $365 plo 106 entries / 9k/5k/4k
event #2 $365 nlh re-entry 768 entries / 45k/28k/20k
main event $1675 nlh 340 entries / 117k/72k/53k

Oct. 11-22, 2011 Horseshoe Hammond (Ind.)
event #1 $365 nlh re-entry 2498 entries / 110k/69k/52k
event #4 $365 plo $100 rebuys / 166 entries
main event $1675 nlh 1523 entries / 386k/239k/180k

Oct. 27-Nov. 7, 2012 River Rock (Vancouver, British Columbia)
event #1 $365 nlh 410 entries / 27k/16k/12k
event #3 $365 plo 205 entries / 15k/10k/7k
main event $1675 nlh 1032 entries / 286k/177k/131k

Nov. 8-19, 2012 Harvey's Lake Tahoe (Stateline, Nev.)
event #1 $365 nlh 266 entries / 19k/12k/9k
event #3 $365 H.O.R.S.E. 104 entries / 9k/5k/4k
event #4 $365 nlh re-entry 651 entries / 40k/24k/18k
main event $1675 nlh 422 entries / 139k/86k/62k

Nov. 29-Dec. 10, 2012 Harrah's Atlantic City (N.J.)
event #1 $365 nlh 536 entries / 35k/21k/15k
event #8 $365 limit Omaha8 164 entries / 13k/8k/6k
event #2 $365 nlh re-entry 858 entries / 50k/31k/23k
main event $1675 nlh 616 entries / 194k/120k/87k

Dec. 6-17, 2012 Harrah's Rincon (Valley Center, Calif.)
event #1 $365 nlh 205 entries / 15k/10k/7k
event #3 $365 H.O.R.S.E. 71 entries / 7k/4k/3k
event #4 $365 nlh re-entry 400 entries / 26k/16k/12k
main event $1675 nlh 306 entries / 108k/66k/48k

Jan. 3-14, 2013 Bicycle Casino (Bell Gardens, Calif.)
event #1 $365 nlh 273 entries / 20k/12k/9k
event #8 $365 limit Omaha8 177 entries / 14k/9k/6k
event #3 $365 nlh re-entry 723 entries / 43k/26k/19k
main event $1675 nlh 721 entries / 216k/133k/98k

Jan. 10-21, 2013 Choctaw Durant (Durant, Okla.)
event #1 $365 nlh 481 entries / 31k/19k/14k
event #9 $365 plo 266 entries / 19k/12k/9k
event #2 $365 nlh re-entry 2209 entries / 168k/104k/78k
main event $1675 nlh 1140 entries / 312k/192k/143k

Jan. 24-Feb. 4, 2013 Harrah's Tunica (Robinsonville, Miss.)
event #1 $365 nlh 435 entries / 29k/17k/13k
event #8 $365 plo 162 entries / 13k/8k/6k
event #3 $365 nlh re-entry 1271 entries / 68k/42k/31k
main event $1675 nlh 666 entries / 204k/126k/93k

Feb. 7-18, 2013 Caesars Palace (Las Vegas)
event #1 $365 nlh 471 entries / 30k/19k/13k
event #8 $365 plo 137 entries / 11k/7k/5k
event #2 $365 nlh re-entry 872 entries / 51k/31k/23k
main event $1675 nlh 744 entries / 223k/137k/101k

Feb. 14-25, 2013 Palm Beach Kennel Club (West Palm Beach, Fla.)
event #4 $365 nlh 389 entries / 26k/16k/12k
event #2 $365 plo8 188 entries / 14k/9k/6k
event #1 $365 nlh re-entry 2539 entries / 184k/114k/87k
main event $1675 nlh 670 entries / 206k/127k/93k

Feb. 28-March 11, 2013 Caesars Atlantic City (N.J.)
event #1 $365 nlh 495 entries
event #8 $365 plo8 142 entries
event #2 $365 nlh re-entry 809 entries
main event $1675 nlh 540 entries

March 14-25, 2013 Horseshoe Cleveland
event #1 $365 nlh 301 entries
event #3 $365 plo 148 entries
event #4 $365 nlh re-entry 516 entries
main event $1675 nlh 421 entries

March 27-April 8, 2013 Foxwoods Resort Casino (Mashantucket, Conn.)
event #2 $365 nlh 179 entries
event #3 $365 plo8 143 entries
event #1 $365 nlh re-entry 800 entries
main event $1675 nlh saturday April 6th

Looks like there was a massive cleanup over the weekend of live vs e-table discussion, and a few other posts possibly got swept up in the deleting. That discussion is ONLY supposed to take place here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...thread-517176/

Also if you have a moderation complaint, don't derail this thread with it, post it here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...hread-1015451/

(8) Containment. Discussion of the following topics are limited to the linked containment threads (not linked):

Human-dealt tables v. e-tables
Discussion of the Moderation of the B&M Forum

Are there any other venues in the US that currently have both e-tables and traditional live tables side by side in the same room? It seems to me that given the roll-out of live cards at Cherokee the debate/discussion as it relates to Cherokee and the future of the room should be allowed to remain ITT. Hopefully the mods can take that into consideration and leave the posts here, at least for the time being.

Guys take this discussion to the Moderation thread like I said. Further posts on this ITT will be deleted.