It is scummy to call the floor regardless of the rule. The guy probably just got excited. Rule or not, let it go.

Early on in my career I had a similar situation. As soon as I yelled for the floor I never felt more embarrassed and halfway through I wanted to stop myself

Wait wait wait.

Did the dealer put out the turn and show a 7?

There's no way in hell that it should become a burn card.

In SOME rooms, they burn and put out the river face down, shuffle in the exposed turn, let action for the flop happen, and then deal the turn without burning. Some people think that this "preserves the original river" and is a good idea. Meh, just leaves another card sitting out there for problems, and exposes it's back to let you see any potential marks. Bad idea.

Other rooms will put the turn off to the side. Action happens on the flop. Burn and put out the next card. Now what would have been the river is the turn. Pre-xposed turn gets shuffled in, one dealt without burning as the river.

The best way, IMO, is to allow action OTF, shuffle back in the turn (after action), deal 1 without burning as the new turn, then burn and deal the river. Fewer cards floating around with exposed backs that way, simpler.

Any way you cut it, an exposed turn card should be eligible to come back out on the board and not killed.


Kid needs to pay attention, but you can't fault him for "failing to protect his action", he was last to act and caught the dealer as quickly as you could really expect anyone to. It's not like there were 4 checks behind him.

im sure pot size was a factor....but its all bad either way.....the floor saying things like "you really want me to muck his aces preflop' or "mucking his hand does nothing good for the game" make no sense. a rule is a rule, and should be upheld....ive seen this scenario numerous times, the hand has ALWAYS been declared dead

I've even seen them muck a hand there with player A raising, player B going all in, and player C exposing during table talk deciding about the side pot, even though the action is essentially heads up at that point. It was explained that since player B had a stake in the main, it wasn't fair to him to influence future decisions made my player A.

Mucking a hand isn't generally "in the best interests of the game"

And that is the discretion that the Floor is allowed to invoke. Even when a ruling goes against the stated rule, (IMO) if you are killing hands it really has to be egregious.

This was my thinking. I was the Cutoff with A/7 and missed out on the Trips. I didn't put up any stink. Afterwards I sort of wondered if I should have argued for keeping the 7 live. But I also knew I was gonna fold to the kid's bet anyway and certainly would have if he'd been given the chance to bet. Also, I did believe at the time that he genuinely was going to bet and didn't get the chance to act. I also believe that if he'd been paying attention and not messing with his phone and ear buds, he wouldn't have missed his action.

You have to balance your "arguing with the floor" range. He's supposed to make the right ruling all the time, regardless of the situation.

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE RULES! !

Lol but seriously, I'm surprised so many people are against having the floor rule the exposed hand dead. I don't consider playing within the rules of the game scummy at all.

Play within the rules imo. If the rules say his hand is dead, better believe I'm making sure it is ruled dead. If you don't want your hand ruled dead, don't prematurely expose it.

I'm not losing any sleep over you killing the winning hand and shipping the pot to me.

Greektown is Nam.

And don't expose your hand.. period unless the dealer says too.

Update.. my buddy Lance Harris is sitting with 580k with 212 left in the main. 900k+ is chip average.

power was out at vision last night. anyone know if they got it back?

Isn't he from MN? Sounds really familiar.

He is. I got to play with him when I was in Baraboo last year. Really nice guy/good player. He played on the TV table yesterday so we'll be seeing him in a few months.

Well that's a small world. I've sat with him a few times at the tables back in MN.

Lyle Berman's kid Brad Berman just doubled up by the looks of it. Now at 100bb and good for 25th place.

Does anybody know how to post a youtube video to Facebook with an iphone AND have a preview thumbnail show up?

"Not seeing the other short stack still to act."

I wouldn't lose sleep either if I was pushed the pot, however think the intent of this stupid rule is to prevent angle shooting of some sort. He can't be angle shooting this guy because his tiny $70 stack pales in comparison to his called $500 bet and in addition he didn't see he still had cards. I understand "a rule is a rule" but at some point common sense has to come into play and the floor has to do what's best for the game.


Remember the days where motor city said your cards are dead if you turn them over and they touch the FLOP? If you sit in the middle sometimes it was hard to turn your hand over without touching the flop especially if you had a lot of chips. People that think that rule should be enforced strictly much like this one need take a step back.

It's an obscure rule that most of the world wouldn't know about unless they played there everyday. Is this rule posted someplace? If so that's a slightly different story.

The motor city rule just seems like it was a bad rule(probably why it doesn't exist anymore?).....

but Imo, whats "best for the game" is that rules(whatever they may be) be enforced Consistently. Debating a player's intent, or the amount of the bet/pot, etc just opens the door for more issues.

This particular situation is almost a "no harm done" situation given the other short stack size and the fact the cards ran out and "fixed" the situation anyways.....however, would the ruling have been the same after the flop? on the turn?....pretty sure the floor just didn't want to take a player's $500 with aces and "give" his money away without even seeing a flop......but it was his fault for prematurely exposing his hand....its about Consistency

Imagine if the player had prematurely flipped over 77 and was just "making a move" in his head.....the same horrible ruling is made, and he turns or rivers a 7 to take a $1000+ pot from Alex's KK

What if the guy flips up J3? Do you ask to have J3 killed?

I don't "ask" for anything to be killed. Just like I wouldn't have "asked" the dealer to call the floor......both things should just happen in a well run game

Yes of course.

J3 has > 0 equity vs KK

Dead hand = 0 equity

Lance Harris over 1 million in chips. 168 left. Blinds at 10-20k. So he has 50bb.

If we are going to imagine things, what if you were playing someplace where the rule was that if you don't verbalize your bet then you have to forfeit the chips in front of you to the casino? You pickup aces and push out enough chips to raise. Since you didn't verbalize the amount you lose your buy in. Would you shrug it off as something you should have known? Is it your fault for not asking about the rules ahead of time?

That's fantasy. Not exposing your hand is pretty standard.