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November HSNL **** Thread November HSNL **** Thread

11-17-2009 , 08:44 PM
"My Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder is many things. It is a beautiful piece of design. It is a snarling beast. It is an exquisite piece of engineering. And it is covered in dead leaves. But most of all, it is a magnet for *****..."

11-17-2009 , 09:02 PM
horseshoe valley race track in HK was pretty sweet. tons of crazy asian gambooolers.

the night market is called temple street fwiw and is on kowloon, not hong kong island.
11-17-2009 , 09:26 PM
Got to be honest corbin im dieing to bust you now. Truly bitch made.

Last edited by Eskaborr; 11-17-2009 at 09:28 PM. Reason: misquote
11-17-2009 , 10:02 PM
nice jc. i really want to eat some curry chips now.
11-17-2009 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLizzle
props to dogishead for this sick blog post

http://blogs.cardrunners.com/BLAG/an...ets-1258491260
Meh I felt like it was overly fluffy and ultimately not worth the read other than maybe just appreciating eloquent writing.

TBH I'm constantly shocked at how much emphasis gets put on <50k hand samples at nosebleeds, often times by the nosebleeders themselves. I think it's pretty foolish to think that even the history of nosebleed stakes is large enough to come to real conclusions about such hierarchies. I feel like a lot of the players are so far removed from 50k-hand months that they (and everyone else) sometimes forget just how badly you can run.

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty clear who's super good. I'm just implying that with the short sample of the history of 300/600+, the difference between good and best are not as large as the stats may show. I mean when you can be +/- something like 4ptbb/100 at MSNL over separate 100k samples, it certainly seems like any of the nosebleeders that are down money at those tables for 40k hands could potentially be winning players in those games. The reverse seems like it can only also be true.

I'm probably biased from reading books like FBR etcetc. and thinking about these things too much, but I figured it was a good opportunity to rant..
11-17-2009 , 10:26 PM
Wrote this in NVG so I might as well CC part of it here:

There seems to be a bit of hate/disdain for what I wrote, and I just want to say that although it was overdramatic and maybe at times disingenuous, it was the first article that I've written with NVG as my intended audience. If you found the drama/sumptuousness of writing hard to stomach, that's okay. I wrote it hoping that most people would enjoy it without having to critically dismantle all of the underlying bull****.

Also, lol. I consider Corbin a friend so what I wrote about him was tongue in cheek, but it seems like he didn't read it that way. It's all good though.

Thanks for the kind comments.
11-17-2009 , 10:52 PM
I thought it was completely fine, Haseeb.

Very good post.
11-18-2009 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefort
Meh I felt like it was overly fluffy and ultimately not worth the read other than maybe just appreciating eloquent writing.

TBH I'm constantly shocked at how much emphasis gets put on <50k hand samples at nosebleeds, often times by the nosebleeders themselves. I think it's pretty foolish to think that even the history of nosebleed stakes is large enough to come to real conclusions about such hierarchies. I feel like a lot of the players are so far removed from 50k-hand months that they (and everyone else) sometimes forget just how badly you can run.

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty clear who's super good. I'm just implying that with the short sample of the history of 300/600+, the difference between good and best are not as large as the stats may show. I mean when you can be +/- something like 4ptbb/100 at MSNL over separate 100k samples, it certainly seems like any of the nosebleeders that are down money at those tables for 40k hands could potentially be winning players in those games. The reverse seems like it can only also be true.

I'm probably biased from reading books like FBR etcetc. and thinking about these things too much, but I figured it was a good opportunity to rant..
+1

It was only a matter of time until something like this happened when you can play games like NLHE and PLO heads up with a $1000 big blind. While I do have an incredible appreciation for Isildur's style (6 tbling HU, taking all comers, playing long sessions), his results aren't exactly unfathomable even if he only had an edge in say half his sessions.

Last edited by tdomeski; 11-18-2009 at 12:49 AM. Reason: enjoyed the read tho. nice to see commentary on the guy
11-18-2009 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskaborr
Got to be honest corbin im dieing to bust you now. Truly bitch made.
ya i messed up. i totally took what haseeb wrote the wrong way and talked to him about it once i saw him online. we're good now i think and i'm not sure why i spazzed out so hard earlier.

once again i make a fool outta myself. go me.

mods please delete my post from earlier. it's totally pointless/stupid/childish.
11-18-2009 , 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski
+1

It was only a matter of time until something like this happened when you can play games like NLHE and PLO heads up with a $1000 big blind. While I do have an incredible appreciation for Isildur's style (6 tbling HU, taking all comers, playing long sessions), his results aren't exactly unfathomable even if he only had an edge in say half his sessions.
Isn't the chance of durrrr having had even close to an even money chance against isildur in their matches so far close to 0% given the number of heads up hands they've played and the money won/lost? durrrr made his infamous challenge presumably based on a similar premise (That over 50k hands of heads up the better player is going to win a huge majority of the time). I think this is a situation that is more interesting to analyze from a non numbers perspective and the blog post did that well imo.

Last edited by DLizzle; 11-18-2009 at 01:51 AM.
11-18-2009 , 01:56 AM
when a site asks why you are sending someone money, is it a bad idea to tell them it was a swap?
11-18-2009 , 02:01 AM
say stake
11-18-2009 , 02:05 AM
Sites are just trying to make sure they are using the money to play and not to cashout or for some shady ****. If you are swapping just tell them your sending them money to play on the site which is true anyways and they'll be happy
11-18-2009 , 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLizzle
Isn't the chance of durrrr having had even close to an even money chance against isildur in their matches so far close to 0% given the number of heads up hands they've played and the money won/lost? durrrr made his infamous challenge presumably based on a similar premise (That over 50k hands of heads up the better player is going to win a huge majority of the time). I think this is a situation that is more interesting to analyze from a non numbers perspective and the blog post did that well imo.
Look at it this way. If you design two players with differing yet similarly superaggro styles to have exactly equal equity and zero edge and run a million hand HU simulation, you'll undoubtedly have a ton of 20-30k hand samples where one pulls ahead by 20, 30, 40 buyins.

I mean it's obvious that like "the better player will win the majority of the time". I'm just merely pointing out that if the edge is small, that "majority" is approaching 100% -> 50% a lot faster than most would think as your hand sample decreases.
11-18-2009 , 02:46 AM
pa plays isildur and loses 500k over 50k hands
durrrr plays pa and wins 500k over 50k hands
durrrr plays isildur and loses 500k over 50k hands

what does this mean?
11-18-2009 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefort
Look at it this way. If you design two players with differing yet similarly superaggro styles to have exactly equal equity and zero edge and run a million hand HU simulation, you'll undoubtedly have a ton of 20-30k hand samples where one pulls ahead by 20, 30, 40 buyins.

I mean it's obvious that like "the better player will win the majority of the time". I'm just merely pointing out that if the edge is small, that "majority" is approaching 100% -> 50% a lot faster than most would think as your hand sample decreases.
ya i agree with this.

in theory when durrrr and Isildur1 play heads one of them has a positive winrate and one of them has a negative winrate (or rate at which they lose). with an infinite sample size i'd imagine the winner would be winning at such a small clip (in terms of bb/100) that there would be massive amounts of variance. add to that that they continue to play when deeper than 200 bb's (a stipulation of durrrr challenge was you could sit a new table if you got 200 bb effective i believe) and you just will have some ridic swings. it wouldn't surprise me to see +/- 50 buy in swings between the two given the current state of their heads up matches.

Last edited by tdomeski; 11-18-2009 at 02:53 AM. Reason: also they both tilt at times (or seem to) so the stuck get more stuck
11-18-2009 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Rocknroll
pa plays isildur and loses 500k over 50k hands
durrrr plays pa and wins 500k over 50k hands
durrrr plays isildur and loses 500k over 50k hands

what does this mean?
pa = rock
durrr = paper
isildur = scissors

?
11-18-2009 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefort
Look at it this way. If you design two players with differing yet similarly superaggro styles to have exactly equal equity and zero edge and run a million hand HU simulation, you'll undoubtedly have a ton of 20-30k hand samples where one pulls ahead by 20, 30, 40 buyins.

I mean it's obvious that like "the better player will win the majority of the time". I'm just merely pointing out that if the edge is small, that "majority" is approaching 100% -> 50% a lot faster than most would think as your hand sample decreases.
I don't know about that, and anyway you could never run such a simulation because the strategies and styles of the players will be fluid throughout their matchup. Plus, even if it is true that there would be many 35k hand samples where one player wins 30 buyins, it would still be extremely unlikely for this to occur on the first 35k hands.

I don't think it's unreasonable to accept that durrrr has so far been crushed and to ask why, what does it mean and to try to examine it and think of it as a possibly significant piece of poker history.

I don't mean to be a typical durrrr hating NVGer because I am certainly not. Like in the blog post I have found myself rooting for durrrr always for reasons I can't fully explain. I just think it's kind of silly to dismiss this as just some mathematical variance. If it is just that it's certainly of epic proportions by my estimation and worthy of discussion.

Last edited by DLizzle; 11-18-2009 at 02:58 AM.
11-18-2009 , 02:59 AM
Oh I'm not dismissing it. I'm merely pointing out the fact that there lies the potential for it to be deserving of dismissal.
11-18-2009 , 03:07 AM
isildur is getting soooo close to beating ivey and winning poker.
11-18-2009 , 03:52 AM
god i wish i would have been able to play him at 1-2
11-18-2009 , 04:11 AM
was durrrr's challenge over once PA accepted? jw why isildur didn't accept the challenge if it was still open.
11-18-2009 , 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aejones
god i wish i would have been able to play him at 1-2
He'll prob 6 table you 1/2. He sits around all day looking for action. If you sit and ask him for 1/2 you'll get your wish imo. Guy just loves to play poker.
11-18-2009 , 04:47 AM
any chance this was a pre meditated attack plan by ivey, PA, and durrr to play him all at once? think ab how much that increases ur edge if you are 2 tbling someone while they are 8 tbling...
11-18-2009 , 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drexah
was durrrr's challenge over once PA accepted? jw why isildur didn't accept the challenge if it was still open.
No he plays ivey next, and I think a couple of people wanted to go next after that (fullflush, benyamine) but nothing concrete. I guess he doesn't want to run them concurrently either.

      
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