If the ZOOM is not 100bb minimum (or at least good anti-ratholing measures in place) then that will greatly hurt the amount of reg action that takes place at ZOOM tables for sure. Not a chance that I'll be playing with shortstackers often when there's not even an incentive to start tables because I can wait for a pool I like without worrying about missing out on a seat. Overall ZOOM will decrease the amount of reg action taking place when there is no recreational player present as there is no longer an incentive to start tables or to fight to be 1 of the 2 players allowed to sit with no game running so it will only run between regs when all the regs feel they have an edge or particularly feel like playing. It will however increase the amount of action when there is a recreational player playing as 1 such player could spawn a pool with a lot of entries.

I think I prefer how it currently is to ZOOM only but I am not 100% decided. Both ZOOM and how it currently is are miles better than how it used to be so we have that to be thankful for. I think it is a pretty real concern though that if it is ZOOM only then regs will very rarely play unless there is a good pool running and a good pool might not start very often because the player who would make it good will just see an empty zoom pool and not bother sitting. Certainly from the evidence of the ZOOM alongside normal tables at high stakes there don't seem to be many regs lining up to start it and no recreational players joining empty pools. I'd be very interested to hear what the other guys who play the high stakes games think of ZOOM only vs the current system?

i think we overlook the fact that zoom is veryyy good for fish and therefor good for the rooms.
I.E fish play tighter and loose less per hand.

i think we should remove the Fast fold button from zoom and zoom will be perfect.

especially if all stakes eventuelly will be zoom, i see no upside to a fast fold button.
just open more tables if things are too slow for ya.

there is no downside to the player pool zoom provides, hence all the good comments ITT, but there are some difference to how zoom is different as a poker game,remove that and its all perfect IMO

very much +1111 to a daily change first

edit wrong thread: pls delete

I'm a recreational player play a few days a week my noob questions are...

I prefer to play and get reads on players I'm playing against and this to me is poker and and what makes the game so great, i also play Heads up quite a bit same applies.

I never played Zoom, seen it played but don't like it as your facing new players every hand and the reads on him are limited unless you played him quite a bit which for a guy like myself who only plays 3-4 days a week is unlikely.

As for making full tables and 6 max and Heads up games Zoom only this to me would be a total disaster as i said its not poker anymore were turning a game that is great into a pokies like machine type game, well not quite but you know what i mean.

Heads up is player vs player reads game and all the rest that goes with it which makes it so enjoyable.

TO make all games Zoom just because bumbhunters ruin this great game is not the solution instead Poker stars can find another solution like someone mentioned in the thread already have a report button and let the regs report him as fish and recreational players wont really know when a bumbhunter is doing the wrong thing always like grimming seat scripts and other words used on this forum which to me are new.

Basically leave the game Poker as it is sure you can introduce Zoom but from a recreational players point of view don't ruin the game of Poker due to some bumbhunting issues, its not all about the regs but also take into account fish like myself who just want to play Poker as it is now and as it has been played for years which is

- Not a fast fold game
- get reads on players not new players every hand just because i reg might be a winner over a fish does not mean that the fish will not try and out play him in some way this is what makes poker fun like i said its not all about the regs

Anyway i understand the regs have a bumbhunting issue and are trying to resolve it but ffs lets not change and turn this great game into something that will only suit the regs but not the recreational player.

After all they are the players regs are making most of their money off and when i watch poker on a TV or play in the casino and decide i want to play try it online and to turn upto a online poker site and find its Zoom only well ffs

This from my point of view is not poker sure it might suit regs with all the poker programs and stats they keep on other players but it does not suit recreational players like myself, who play poker for fun and enjoy the game as it is now.

I think Zoom only on stakes higher than 5/10 is really bad: no reg wars, no deep tbls => no action without weak players => dead game.
Stars, u better focus on banning seating scripts AND NOT ADDING IT TO PERMITTED TOOLS AND SERVICES


WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?

this, please, this.

get rid of bumhunting if you want but dont get rid of 50+ vpip fishes

Very well put. I agree with everything. DO whatever you need to protect games from table seating scripts and similar stuff, but DO NOT CHANGE GAME ITSELF. I want to play Poker, but not poker domino.

I find zoom pretty different from regular poker even if it has most rules very similar. Here is similar "zoom" approach in the real word:

Quote from: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/05...n-pregnancies/

So now stars are going to force everybody to play that game, even if it is not acceptible for everyone

Well table starters+global waiting lists would offer same the level of solution to the problem without limiting people's choice when it goes to the variety of the games.

Zoom/Rush have never outperformed standard tables at any stakes when it goes to amount of players playing. Clearly there is a demand for both kinds of games and making it all zoom isn't a solution especially that P* already added high stakes zoom to their offer.

the thing is why are any tools allowed its not like you can use these tools in live poker

Zoom poker is a totally different game, and I can't imagine how turning online poker into a fast fold game would benefit the enviroment.
If you want to get rid of bumhunting and table camping, just make tables without waiting list and without the option to sit out...

you also cant play 24 tables in live poker, i say PS implements 1 table per player policy!!!!

Yes, and you should have to be on site at a casino with your laptop on the felt!

What happens to deep tables?

I'd say 50/100 NLHE zoom will run really really often.

I think this change is worth a try.

• Its very bad for the bumhunters and scripters (which is good as their incompetitive and predatory behaviour is a disgrace to the game)

• Its a pretty good change for the good but not quite top 10 regs, the ones who are somewhat ****ed in the current situation because they cant get on a table without a fast script or expensive battles with almost exclusively top 10 regs

• Its a somewhat neutral operation for top 10 regs, no more battling for seats, and they're gonna have to share the fish with more regs, but they get to play more hands with the non top 10 regs.

• It depends for the fish, lets hope they like it (some 10k fish def do as they are frequently spotted in the 1k and 500 zoom games) Obv its gonna be an even more different experience from casino poker, but then again no one really likes 20 hands/hr anyway.

+ Everyone gets all the awesome zoom advantages, more poker, less lobby management, easy session start etc..

So all in all I think its likely gonna be an improvement


I just really hope we're not gonna lose the ante games.
Is it gonna be normal tables only, or ante only or both?

edit: oh and big +1 for getting rid of Table Starters, they're just another hassle and its mostly bumhunters and grimmers that 'use' them.

I´m really not sure if this will be good for the games or not. What I do know is this; it´s very important the Zoom pools have a very high min. buyin or the angle shooting will run rampant.

Kanu makes a very good point actually which nobody has addressed.

All that will happen is bumhunters will never enter a zoom pool unless a fish is in it and a fish will not sit as the 1st player in the pool so you need a group of regs willing to play each other awaiting a fish to join the pool.

At least if 4 regs battle on a current table they are guaranteed a seat at a 6 handed table with a fish when 1 joins, under zoom they will be guaranteed no more fish action than a guy who joins zoom as soon as the fish is in the game and leaves as soon as he busts. Pool would go from 10-100-10 as fish entered and busted.

I feel zoom may arguably make it even less attractive to start tables.

The table starters were beyond a complete failure, im not sure why stars even came up with those, so I think we are all on the same page that removing those is good for the lobby.

I would not be supportive of this change if it removes ante tales, or allows many regs to shortstack 50/100. (IE if the minimum is 40 bb, I think that when a fish sits there will be tons of regs that sit in at 40 bb which will make playing with more then that significantly worse) While this will make seating less predatory, it will make short stacking significantly moreso.

I am unsure if this change will influence status quo in a positive way. In my opinion we need drastic changes to make highstakes games better for regs and recreational players.

#1 Min buy-in of 75bb+
#2 only showing amount of entries in the 10k lobby, no names

#2 encourages people to jump in the cold water. If the 10k zoom lobby has a detailed view of entries and who is playing, then nothing will change and things get even worse since there is no incentive for regs to battle. If players wanna know who's playing, they are forced to play at least 1 orbit.

Highstakes games became worse and worse and the only change that was made was tablestarters, which is a joke. At the same time more and more scripts are available which shows that Zoom is the right way to go but we need reasonable settings which promote game starting and protection of recreational players. What we dont need is zoom being worse than the status quo.

the seating scripts being a problem doesnt necesarily mean that zoom is the right way to go, simply banning seating scripts would solve it.

How often does this currently happen at $50/$100 NLHE, not counting the times when a desirable opponent is already playing at same/similar stakes and the players are hoping to entice this opponent to multitable?

I think people that like dynamic game must play zoom and people who went from long difficult day or passionate night from clubs and tired must play Ring Game.

All the time actually. With only 2 players allowed to sit and more than 2 players wanting to make sure they get in any games that run there has been a ton of 3-6 handed reg action going on at 50/100 deep ante recently.

Just ban HUDs and any kind of scripts instead of trying to find workaround so people can still use them without making the games worse

here you are just trying to cure the symtoms not the disease