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Open shoving 22+ 25bb vs weak players

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06-29-2013 , 07:32 AM

#26

olistr

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 227

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeProtagonist

The first part is def not true. Show me a calling range that open jamming 22/33 at 25bb is worse than folding.

I never said that

Quote

06-29-2013 , 08:05 AM

#27

blinblin

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeProtagonist

Wut? No.

Of course if you are not going to build an os range and just os 25bb pocket pair you will face up quickly and give opportunity to vilain to call with hands like T9s but if you can include some Ax it will be really difficult for vilain to adjust against your OS 25bb, cqfd

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06-29-2013 , 09:04 AM

#28

LeProtagonist

adept

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,052

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axif

Why is calling with mediocre Ax so bad? Is it caused by fact, that villain blocks our straight outs almost always?

This discussion reminds me about this topic: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...-20bb-1213395/

Purely because they don't have the required equity vs our range, (exclusively 22/33) eg. calling with AJ is -0.16 .

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinblin

You shouldn't have Ax in your readless jamming range 25bb deep. That really isn't ever going to be max ev play, anticipating someone's adjustments before they do anything is just going to cost you $ev longterm.

Quote

06-29-2013 , 10:11 AM

#29

zamzzz

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatupdoez

open shoving with 66/77 is fine...they play well post flop against villans BB calling range? how, unless villain has 23s, 45s, 44, 55 kinda hands, it's going to be hard to play on almost any flop. An by dominate, you mean its going to be 55/45, against most hands like 89s 109s 10J, J8 etc....If a 8/9/10/J comes up, you likely to have the worst hand, or can easily get semi-bluff on straight draws or combo draws. shoving pre is fine with any pair, especially if <15BB.

Topic was about openshoving vs weak players. I don't know what does "weak" mean in this matter but I guess they are that kind of villains who are not capable of semi-bluffing and are pretty calling stationary and passive. Against a wide preflop range we would dominate (I don't know if it's the correct term in this case) some hands like A2-A5, K2-K5, Q2-Q5, J2s-J5s maybe J3o-J5o, T2s-T5s, T5o, small (suited)connectors like 54s/54o etc.

Btw do you guys know do high stakes guys like Skai or Gr33n have openshoving ranges at all (~25bb deep) either against other high stakes regs or fishes? I don't remember that I would have seen them do that while railing them.

Quote

06-29-2013 , 11:40 AM

#30

blinblin

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamzzz

I don't know what does "weak" mean in this matter.

I mean just non regular, players they just come for relax

Quote

06-29-2013 , 01:09 PM

#31

JSpazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamzzz

Btw do you guys know do high stakes guys like Skai or Gr33n have openshoving ranges at all (~25bb deep) either against other high stakes regs or fishes? I don't remember that I would have seen them do that while railing them.

I'm sure they do, but you just never saw such a spot come up while railing them. I can sometimes go for an entire day w/o openshoving 22-25bb dp

Quote

06-29-2013 , 02:06 PM

#32

crazyriver

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamzzz

I did! And the other reg was calling with 76o and 96s one game after another.

Quote

06-29-2013 , 02:19 PM

#33

zamzzz

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSpazz

I'm sure they do, but you just never saw such a spot come up while railing them. I can sometimes go for an entire day w/o openshoving 22-25bb dp

Yeah may be so. But I have railed them like, a LOT

Quote

06-29-2013 , 04:24 PM

#34

icoon

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 744

Think limpshove is more common among good regs

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06-29-2013 , 05:06 PM

#35

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

i think doing whatever is best in the situation is common among good regs

Quote

06-29-2013 , 07:30 PM

#36

icoon

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 744

I mean vs eachother

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07-01-2013 , 01:26 PM

#37

Baradur

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 104

AggroSquid, Hu4rolllz?????????

Quote

07-02-2013 , 03:13 AM

#38

l.marius

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26

Open showing 22 vs. $15 population is probably the only optimal move we definitely know. 33 maybe too, but open showing 55-77 or even Ax are omg, no, no.

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