Agreed.

As it played out, I would say MSauce does not owe any money, but he is someone I would never do business with.

Just read through the thread. All of MSauce's posts make me want to choke him and call him the bad guy, but they are both at fault. One of them, at some point, needed to say either, "consider me booked" or "I'm considering you booked". What should have happened is that Stanski's first tweet should have been: "was unable to meet up with MSauce, so he is to be considered unbooked." A tweet the other way ("Considering MSauce as booked") would have been fine, not as good, but you'd have clear support from the 2p2 community.

This IS a murky situation and I'm vacillating as to correct resolution. On the one hand, because there was no CLEAR message one way or the other, I'd say MSauce wasn't booked. However, the status change from "res" to "paying in Vegas" and the fact that MSauce's never received text was sent an hour AFTER Joe busted makes me say action WAS booked. Also, if Joe cashed for 300k and sent you a PM saying, "where do I send your 6k?" it'd be hard for anyone to say no. I'd be content with a $130 payment to Stanski.

No.

*I fell the antithesis of the bakes thread would be the same dispute where both sides rationally presented their arguments and then decided to leave it up to a panel of players who'd look at all the evidence and render a fair verdict as to how much, if anything, bakes should pay. Indeed, that's what I was expecting to see when you made that comment.

This is just the reverse situation.

Amusingly, both seem to have the same conclusion, the person holding the money gets to be right. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, amirite?

lol u are on marketplace tilt! did your WSOP bracelet get lost in the wash or something?!?!

this is just like a car accident in my opinion where both people messed up, both would have to pay the deductable and are at fault, and the best decision in this situation is that $130 is the correct amount owed now.

Well, heres my 2c:

I was in Vegas w/ MSauce, he's a friend of mine in IRL, etc. I went with him to deliver money to some random folks at the Rio who he had "reserved" action with similarly and said he would pay with cash once in Vegas. There is no doubt in my mind that MSauce had the best of intentions with all of this banter in the thread (he definitely wasn't looking to freeroll or w/e, that's not him for sure).

I pretty much just see this as a screw up on both sides -- iirc he had txt'd you and hadn't received anything from you (this of course may be a cell phone # messup, which seems likely from what i've read). What makes sense to me is if you as a backer can't get it touch with someone via the phone info they gave you, you should try to get in touch with them somehow else, like PM. Likewise, if you are awaiting a reservation to be paid by a backer and don't hear from them via the phone info you have -- you should do the same and try to get in touch with them via PM. If neither PM or phone contact works -- i'd consider the reserve void. But since you guys didn't seem to go the extra length, it seems to me that you both are at fault.

I know that MSauce is geniune in saying it's not about the money, and given stanski's rep etc., I have no doubt he feels the same. That being said, for reputations sake if nothing else, I kinda feel like MSauce and stanski should meet in the middle money wise. The donating to charity idea is just dumb, imo.

Ok, thats one big ramble...sorry.

The one thing is he never gave me his phone number to contact him as i've state itt a few times. I pretty much used every means of communication i had (this thread, PM) to try and contact him.

I agree, and think you did everything you could stanski -- but when you do everything you can and can't get in touch with the person, you should definitely just unbook their action. It is really annoying, and makes MSauce someone I would never do business with -- I can see why you are frustrated and I think you handled the situation well up until continuing to book his action.

Yeh I gotcha, so if he didn't PM you that gives you a slight one up imo.

Meh.. I think I was being too forgiving to MSauce in my previous posts. He said he would pay for shares in Vegas when he wasn't going to be in Vegas during the ME, but he didn't bother to ask stanksi whether that would work at all. He didn't bother to contact stanski when he left Vegas without having bought the shares but instead waited until stanski busted to (according to him) send a text message to the wrong number. Even the text message that he says he sent to the wrong number after Stanksi busted doesn't make it clear that he thinks he has not action: "Hey this is msauce I'm not in vegas anymore so I'm not going to be able to meet up with you to give you the cash for the piece, gl in ME." That definitely looks nothing like what I would write if I were telling someone that I was cancelling action.

This just looks so much like a freeroll. Even if it's not actually just an intentional freeroll, it ends up being a freeroll if MSauce doesn't have the integrity to turn down a lot of money if Stanski binks. Even if it's not an intentional freeroll and MSauce does have lots of integrity, it still ends up hurting Stanski because MSauce reserved shares that Joe could've sold elsewhere.

The only mistakes that Joe made were minor ones that hurt himself. MSauce did a bunch of things that gave him the opportunity to freeroll stanski or at least prevent him from selling shares.

$260, IMHO.

fyp.

I think the answer to your question is that stanki will do things differently in the future whereas MSauce thinks he did nothing wrong. At least that's what I get out of this thread.

The bottom line is MSauce gets to keep the money if he chooses. It's easy to see that side of the argument. No money, no action, not stated as booked. The fact that he thinks what he did is perfectly acceptable is the issue. It makes for a poor marketplace.

I think instead of investors keeping personal databases on 2+2ers from bad stakes, update issues, vouching, etc..., a public database would be nice. May be tough for the mods to decide what is allowed. That discussion should take place somewhere soon. Too many scams, along with many gray areas like in this thread.

So the cliffs for this thread is that MSauce was OK with severely damaging his rep over $260.

MSauce, what you don't understand about how reputation works is that it doesn't matter that you think you did nothing wrong. Reputation is based on how others feel about you/your integrity. You repeatedly imply in this thread that because you think you're right, your reputation will be unaffected. That's simply not how it works, man. The majority of people in this thread do think you are scummy for (unintentionally) freerolling & refusing to pay up or at least compromise.

The fact that *you* think you did nothing wrong doesn't matter. You have a significant portion of the Marketplace community questioning your integrity over $260. It amazes me how you cannot see that keeping your rep intact can be worth more than $260, regardless of how stubborn you want to be that you did nothing wrong here..


[Note that I have avoided the issue of whether your arguments are valid or not. I simply find your attitude of "I think I'm right so nothing else matters" to be beyond pathetic.]

Stanski you didn't do anything wrong IMO and agree with Cole that I would never do business with Sauce. Also agree with Pujols, with every post MSauce you are making yourself look worse.

If I ever sold shares I wouldn't take reserves unless I personally knew the person.

You are so biased.....

bc I said that my friend is most likely in the wrong if anyone was? me confused?

SlowCheetah, as his biased friend, (are you implying you're not?) you should realize your opinion won't help anything. Insulting someone's reading skills isn't going to help.

Thanks for the link, was reading your post above that and im soooo stoned right now, seemed biased at first, sorry if im wrong, glade you are very mature, should tell your friend to pay up,

I'm a little concerned with why Msauce holds zero responsibility with:

1) thinking he gave stanski his phone number (which he didn't)

and 2) texting the wrong number when trying to communicate to stanski that he was leaving vegas, and hence, not buying a piece of stanski anymore


What if stanski made an unintentional mistake and overbooked by selling 2% extra to Msauce, then binking the ME? I doubt anybody on this forum with give two ****s about stanski's unintentional mistake of overbooking and say with 100% confidence that stanski owes Msauce.

Also pretty ****ing lol that cts will probably do business with just about anyone semi-reputable in the 2p2 community, but will no longer do business with Msauce. Just shows how easily a reputation can be tarnished by being so negligent.

Fwiw, I'm not 100% sure if I think Msauce owes the money or not. But it is pretty clear that stanski took every plausible precaution to try to receive the money and Msauce kind of just went with whatever was convenient.

your posts do nothing to portray yourself as anything other than someone who doesn't give a **** how he handles his business relationships.

gg marketplace rep.

So you read a whole long post (and thread) about how you handled this situation like a total asshat and your response is "Well obviously it's the other guy's fault for not assuming that I'm a huge asshat!"

Hi everybody,

i have always read this thread, but never stated my opinion, as i agree with the most of you that msauce hast to pay for his share and don't think that anything we are saying here is going to make him pay as he is willing to give up his reputation for those 260$.

I am buying a lot of pieces around here and i am probably the one who does the most reserves as i am living in a diferent time zone and have a full time job with no acess to a poker client. So the only thing i can do is reserve an pay when i am at home.
And sometimes i won't be at home before a schedule started, so i state that and by now never ran into an issue and everyone was willing to hold my reservation until i could send the money.
Issues like this are making reservations harder and i think we as the marketplace community should try to take action to prevent something like this to happen.

The one thing for sure is that sellers should set some timeline when the money has to be send that gives them time enough to sell the unpaid reserves, and only hold reserves when they trust the buyer enough to hold and it was agreed on holding for longer in the thread.

The other thing should be that if it occurse that someone does not pay all sellers of shares should stand togheter and decline an investment of this backer in the future. Just to prevent something like this to happen again.

doubtful.


to the person who said there should be some sort of database, there is one. It's the negative feedback thread. more backers/piece buyer's/anyone who frequents the marketplace really needs to use it more.

and he is already in there so let the circular arguments die and just post a link in every MSauce marketplace thread from now on