Pretty much everything Stanski just posted.

Really indicative of one's character when they won't even consider they might be wrong. I guess Stanski was supposed to read MSauce's mind and know that he was planning on backing out if he just said reserved and not booked?

By engaging in this debate in a public forum I am clearly exposing my thoughts to others and hearing others opinions. If I didn't want to consider any possibility of my being wrong I'd simply ignore this thread. Now, however, towards the end of this argument, I'm reconfirming my beliefs and still have not been swayed.

No, he wasn't supposed to read my mind. The same way he shouldn't have read my mind and assumed "2% if i can pay in vegas" is the same as "book me for 2% whether or not I get up with you and I'll pay it whenever regardless of if we discuss this before the start of the event". Your argument goes both ways.

The fact that you're not even willing to entertain the idea of a compromise when the consensus is pretty clear that both parties are at fault is pretty shoddy, imo.

As a neutral party here, I'd like to see these situations avoided in the future. Many people reserve shares and don't unreserve. This doesn't make it appropriate, but it does happen. Some people may forget. Personally, I would PM the stakee and ask if it is okay with them and let them know if not, I'll honor my reserve.

MSauce, what makes this situation different is that you asked to meet up in Vegas to pay cash. To gain perspective, imagine if everyone in the stake did what you did. Stanksi's BAP would be a nightmare. Can you see a problem with this? If so, then that alone should show you that your actions were not proper. So, if on a jury, I would have to say that TECHNICALLY, you don't owe any money here. But what you did wasn't okay. Me personally, I'd offer to pay the whole thing as a show of good faith. A split down the middle at least says to everyone that you can see other viewpoints and will try to avoid this in the future.

Obviously it is purely your call on whether you pay anything or not. That decision does show a lot about your character whether you realize it or not.

Can a mod confirm that MSauce didn't read this PM from stanski b4 the main event 1C started? If MSauce did read it and simply ignored stanski, then he is clearly in the wrong. This PM indicates that stanski believes he is booked.

MSauce, not willing to compromise and work something out with stanski is completely weak.

Well I also think a key thing is the PM that was posted in this thread that starts "Dear Investors......." etc etc. I mean I don't see why he wouldn't respond to this at all, or when he saw this pm and knew he was leaving vegas, not say that he was leaving vegas. Knowing if he saw the PM and ignored it is also key too as well, i agree.

No, of course not. We can't even see your PMs, let alone tell when you read them.

After giving this thread some thought for the last few hours, I've come up with a proposal. Since we both seem to agree its not the money and that we both made mistakes in handling the matter, I say we deal with this differently. Most of you seem to think I should meet both half way ($130) so how about we use this to benefit people who actually care about the money. This way I can at least show that it's not the money that I'm concerned about and that I had no intentions of scamming or freerolling anybody and still stand by my points outlined in the thread. I am willing to donate half of the share ($130) to a charity of this thread's choice as a showing of good faith and that the money is not the issue here. I'm not sure how happy that will make people which is why I want to get some feedback before doing it.

Thoughts?

sounds pretty douchey

ofc u can't read PMs, but i wasn't sure of mod abilities to see read receipts so i figure i would ask. I know in the past, mods could see how many PMs some1 sent out, so i figured seeing read receipts would also be a capability. Since this is not the case, just ignore my post.

you're not even going to elaborate?

I hate when ppl who owe others money say theyll donate to charity instead. It's almost never the correct solution. In this case if you gave back stanski all of it AND gave some to charity, that would be decent and absolve you as well as repairing your reputation. Only reason you want to do this is because now you're pissed at stanski now and dont want to lose face.

Pay the man.

Or I guess giving stanksi 130 and charity 130 would be ok.

I'm not pissed at anyone and I'm not worried about losing any face. You do realize that I book 99.9% of my shares INSTANTLY by sending online. If people chose not to take my instant shares online because of this thread then so be it. I don't really see why it would change anything. This was one extreme circumstance where I made my reservation with the stipulation that I had to pay in cash in vegas (I don't have that much money online right now and don't want to ship it out) and it simply didn't work out.

I don't really see how paying stanski and charity accomplishes anything.

you might as well just light the money on fire. you don't get the high ground by giving money to poor people.

it's a dispute between you two its not a duel of morality. giving money to charity is a very nice thing to do but when it's money earmarked for someone else it doesn't matter who you give it to, giving it away to another party (after a thread like this) is basically just spitting in stanski's face.

Dead on

The only reason I even proposed it is because stanski said maybe 20 times ITT that it wasn't about the money. I don't at ALL want this proposal to be taken in this fashion so I'll simply retract it and end the thread as that.

The bakes thread precedent seemed to echo the whole "no money, no action" policy and the two involved in that dispute knew eachother much better than I know Stanski (they had made various big money swaps and talked on aim etc).

From bakes thread:

Even though it was not 3 weeks later (week +) and I didn't tell him I'd pay the next day and instead in vegas, the thought process is exactly the same and he never heard from me again before the start of the event.

Stanski: I'm sorry this upset you and caused you distress. It was certainly not my intention. I wish you the best of luck in the future in both life and poker.

MSauce

Its not about the money and you still don't get it..
Its abt the fact that you came into someones BAP thread, took a sht, and are now coming back weeks later to try and flush it.

No one dealing with thousands of $s a day is really going to cry over losing 250ish. Anyone with a brain and thoughts circulating inside is going to be pissed off abt being treated like this:

"I will take 2%! Will pay later in cash. glgl!"

[2 weeks later..]

"Huh? I didn't know I reserved shares from you?! I said I did.. BUT I DIDNT!" dum-dee-dumm-dummm : D And if you try to aruge I'll just reference bakes thread where I can justify my actions. I know what I did and just don't care. lifes great living inside loopholes and such."

You made the condition of meeting up in Vegas, you're the one that became impossible to communicate with, you're the one that left Vegas without settling your share purchases. You met up with others, why did you decide to douche Stanski and PLO?

He had no way of communicating with you, you decided not to check 2p2, and you failed in your attempt to contact him by apparently texting the wrong number. How is any of this his fault? His fault for trusting you apparently.

Send the guy a check if you don't want to part with your online money.

dude what are you talking about this is nowhere close to what happened

when i compared to the bakes thread i had just skimmed, its similar but there are many important differences. not going to bother dissecting them would be enormous waste of time. biggest similarity is the hilarious and sad amount of laziness on the part of the backers.

always fun when people make principled stands for a nominal sum. compare this thread to the insane car sharing thread in MTTc, and you have to wonder why people do not just pay up so they don't have to deal with this bull****.

Ah, fair enough. There's no record of when posts are read unless the sender checks the box to get a read receipt - and then of course he'd be able to see it. I assume this didn't happen here, or he'd have mentioned it.

What you consider "bull****", I consider a really important precedent for the marketplace. I'm pretty shocked you would view this kind of debate as bull**** in a forum that you mod. Sorry you feel this way I suppose.

Man, I hate to jump back in this. However, I feel like the precedent of reserving shares pending cash in Vegas, going to Vegas, not meeting up with the person or make any effort to clarify shares are unreserved, and now not paying on the grounds of no money equals no action when it seems blatantly obvious you weren't the one getting freerolled is a far worse precedent than selling shares and angling money out of people who reserved but didn't send and didn't unreserve shares.

Every time you post it makes me think you should just pay the man his money. I highly doubt you were turning down the money for your share if the guy had cashed (although I can't be sure).

Since I've said everything I want to say already ITT I am not gonna respond and simply clarify that my post was only a response to this:

and not to anything relating to this thread.

Just want to post this as a sort of question...
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...85&postcount=6

Since bugstud did not respond back in this thread specifically saying 'booked,' if he miraculously cannot give cash by the end of day 1 (leaves vegas), doesn't respond to anything etc., according to your logic he owes nothing, since he wasn't able to give cash by the means he wanted to and JP had no reason to believe that after day 1, cash would be paid (he specifically says just paying on day 1). This **** is so ****ing common on the forums, and even if someone doesn't specifically say "booked" they are on the hook for their shares, how the hell can you not see this is just super common practice is seriously beyond my grasp of logic.

oh wait, but bugstud is actually a trusted, reasonable individual who actually has a brain and would never pull this ****.