Anyway, I feel like I've battled my thoughts and reasoning in this thread enough for one day. I urge people to read the ENTIRE post from top to bottom including the PMs I posted before coming to a conclusion about this/(and now hijacked/merged plo ufo) issue.

Sorry for the misunderstanding but I'm standing by my understanding of booking action on 2p2. If any mod would care to shed some light on this situation id be interested in hearing other opinions.

I read the entire thread, MSauce.

Stanski didn't know you had left Vegas, indicating that you were unable to buy some of his action, until after he had busted the ME. After reserving your share and saying you guys would meet up, if something comes up where you can't meet up and you have to leave Vegas it is your responsibility to inform Stanski that you cannot buy his share. You obviously tried to connect with him but dialed the wrong number, this is your fault and your own mistake.

Since you did not come through on your responsibility to let him know that you couldn't buy his share because you were leaving, this whole situation is a result of your irresponsibility.

It's okay, mistakes happen, but stop trying to make up stuff about "Market place rules are blah blah blah". Pay up.

I don't know if MSauce was angle-shooting or not here, it seems pretty unlikely that he or she would be doing that, but I think this paragraph pretty much sums things up. Flip the situation, let's say stanski cashed; 95% of the board would agree (correctly) that stanski would not owe MSauce anything.

Bottom line -- if reserves do not pay before the event, those reserves should be cancelled, unless you are dealing with a personal friend that you trust, or have some explicit arrangement (not the tentative one that seemed to be in place here) with a trusted poster that funds will definitely be paid after the event starts. MSauce may have breached staking etiquette by not being very diligent in following up and communicating regarding shares he had committed to, but on stanski's end, when you are dealing with people on the internet you don't know closely, you should never assume a deal is done until you have cash in hand, imho.

Disagree, stanski apparently had MSauce's number as well, unless I am missing something, and stanski also didn't seem to ever receive a 100% confirmation that the two would be able to meet and the action was definitely booked -- I think while MSauce SHOULD have communicated, and his failure to do so would probably be a reason for other people to require immediate payment from him in the future, the ultimate responsibility to collect funds and know who is definitely in or out belongs to the one getting staked, IMO.

No i did not have MSauce's number at all. He said he gave them to "most players he bought a piece of" and that is not true of me, because i never recieved it.

If i had cashed, 2p2 wouldn't have even been involved since i wouldn't have even posted ITT asking an opinion at all, and posters wouldn't even be able to agree because i would have just asked for a method of payment...

I didn't "reserve" anything he was going to pay me in vegas and that was that, there was nothing "reserved" about someone labeled as "going to pay in vegas." I even sent out an PM to all investors to give them my personal information and just make sure they were comfortable as investors. This has to clearly show that in my head, he was definitely an investor.

fyp. that is all. continue.

Your PM history is misleading because you left out joe's PM that starts "Thank you for investing in me in the ME" and because you make it sound like you texted him a while ago, when in reality you texted him after he'd already busted out.

That's just not the case. Some posters say something like the quote you posted because they don't want to risk getting scammed. Some posters contact people who haven't paid a couple days before the event and ask them to pay or else forfeit their share. Some (maybe most?) are perfectly willing to let people owe them if they seem reputable and have some legitimate reason to pay later (i.e. they want to pay in cash).

It's clear that this is what Joe thought was happening because all of his communications sound like that, he sold the amount that he wanted to sell, he had plenty of people willing to buy your shares if he'd thought you weren't booked, etc. He should have spelled it out for you directly at some point, but it's very common for people to not bother ever saying something like "ok, so just to be clear you have 2% of me and you owe me $260."

I have no doubt that if Joe were the chip leader right now, he'd still think you had 2% of him and owed him $260.

Also, FWIW, I was originally gonna pay Joe in cash in Vegas. It's pretty likely that I wouldn't have paid him until after he'd played, and there's no question in my mind that we were booked there without further communication. He also listed me as reserved, so I think it's pretty clear that he felt the distinction between reserved and paid is just who owes him money and not who's booked. I've done a decent amount of buying shares on this forum, and this is how I've interpreted this in every thread unless they say something like "not booked until paid".

Sorry to off track the posting for a sec:

I really don't like being called Joe that much, even in real life i like being called stanski. Can we stick to stanski lol.

I had a million friends ask for pieces that i didn't even mention a chance to get them was available, because i thought you were booked, obviously.

Difference between $ in my hand and #s reserved online for poker tournaments aren't that far apart the way things work here.

Basically, Sauce, don't reserve shares if you aren't responsible enough to treat them as a business transaction. Window shop on your own time.

Also, I wasn't even aware of the angle shooting possible here until another player pointed it out to me while explaining my situation to him. I don't care to elaborate but I'm sure with a little thought one could put the pieces together on their own how it would be feasible.

I'm not hijacking anything here.. just posting what I thought was relevant information and then ofc my thoughts on this situation.

And no, pocketdueces is not a personal friend but he is a solid guy/poker player and is highly respected. He did indeed agree to pay for the % he posted for in my thread (even after knowing I had already busted).

Between the two of us (stanski and I) this argument is over colletively ~$500 and is hardly worth either of our time. I'm w/stanski to just move on.

And I have no doubt that I would not expect to have a piece of him since I was unable to pay him before the event and never explicity had a conversation with him saying the action was booked before it occured.

Ill offer another scenario for you since I can't seem to get this across. I reserved 1% of mobills in the 25k 6max that I asked to pay in cash. He said it was np and PM'd me with his number while we were both in vegas. Since I was unable to get him the money until the day of the event I texted him SPECIFICALLY to tell him "Consider the share booked" and that I would come to the rio and pay him that day. All of this OCCURRED and I paid him well into day 1 of the event. This simply did not happen in this case.

This again is completely irrelevant to my argument because you have staked Stanski and he is a friend of yours. Booking shares between friends happens ALL the time without an exchange of money (I did the same thing with Melanie (Callisto 5) while in vegas but we know eachother beyond 2p2 so that is different). With someone you don't know simply asking to reserve a share in a thread this is NOT the case.

I don't think anything else i can argue can make this any more clear than this actual occurrence with PLO's share. Someone in the exact same spot as MSauce with the exact same share purchases/reserve confusion, they paid up, even though they never explicitly said anything after asking for the reservation. Whatever obviously pocketdueces is just dumb and doesn't understand the marketplace amirite?

MSauce what exact day did you leave vegas?

I left sunday afternoon. July 4th.

honestly in almost every thread i've bought pieces in i see a deadline on reserves and a waitlist to replace those ppl

Wow, what a train wreck. Not surprising that something like this would come up this summer, and hopefully everyone can learn from this to avoid situations like this from happening in the future.

I am of the opinion that MSauce owes the money for the 2%, although it is definitely close. It seems as though both parties put themselves in a situation to freeroll the other party, however it is clearly impossible to tell if either party's intention was to do just that. I am of the opinion it was more of a lack of communication than a malicious attempt to freeroll someone. The reason I think MSauce owes is because he never attempted to make it clear that he was reserved pending transfer of cash after 1) the initial PM referencing him as an "Investor" and 2) the updated list in the thread that had his % as "paying in Vegas" instead of "reserved". Clearly those two points indicate that OP was under the assumption the action was "booked" and MSauce said nothing to indicate otherwise.

The argument MSauce makes about if OP had cashed and not paid and he come to this thread demanding payment is just plain wrong. It (to me at least) would have been obvious that you were owed the % based solely on those two things I mentioned above. ESPECIALLY when there is someone else on that list listed as "res", meaning that to the OP there is a clear difference between "paying in Vegas" and "res(erved)". Thus, you were booked. There would be a difference if you were a random, but you aren't.

Since it's a close decision either way, and it's not a huge amount of money, I'd suggest MSauce paying half of the amount in question to settle the matter. Just an idea.

such a dumb spot that can be easily avoided if either of you had a brain.

I think MSauce owes the money but its close and I won't think any less of his reputation if he feels he doesn't owe the money.

this is just unreal dumb. you are "respected" and "reputable" so of course he thought the shares were booked.


i quote those two, cause you are obv not "respected" or a "reputable person" anymore in a lot of people's eyes cause of this whole mess

I staked stanski for like 1 month i think, and it was for micro stuff and he left me when i couldnt provide a bankroll for bigger things. we talk maybe once a month, maybe.

Noahsd is pretty much right about everything...

how convienent...


agree



basically, MSauce owes the money.

i personally think his reputation is close to worthless now, either way.

Your post brought nothing to the table. You thinking clicking buttons to get 9000 posts makes you immune to be called out when you post something non-sensical?

gl with that brosef.

I'm in the car right now so I won't respond fully yet but could we please at least keep the bro fights out of this thread? Its bad enough already...

ive done a ton of staking, transfers, and buying/selling shares, especially in this forum. You, sir, are a random. Congrats on "calling me out" by typing "lulz" you clearly aren't clicking buttons when you post.

MSauce has pretty decent reasoning as to why the action was not booked, it was obviously mishandled by both parties. If he refuses to pay, i don't think its on the basis of angling 2% ME equity nor would I think he should not be trusted in the future. Obviously i would be smart enough to not put myself in a situation like OP.

Well I sent out an email to investors telling them all my information, had no method to contact him before the event besides PM here, posted in this thread... I mean if he would have included his phone number, i guess there was more that could be done, but at some point if he doesn't respond what can i do?

I dont know either of them but here are just a few observations:

1. "Seller's Responsibility"

a. MSauce writes

b. then he writes again

c. nineallday00 points out this:


d. to which MSauce responds by saying:

So MSauce does not even respond and completely ignores nine's point that nine never really had MSauce's # while he "made it the seller's responsibility" to contact him.

e. btw nine did attempt to contact msauce. he posts

as such fulfilling his duty as the "seller's responsibility" that msauce decided to put on nine.

e. few posts later, msauce says this:


How the heck is nine gonna contact msauce if msauce is irresponsible enough to not leave his # and yet expect nine to contact him when he doesn't have his # and not active online on 2p2.

2. Chronology of events:

a. msauce left vegas sunday with no attempts to inform nine at any point he's leaving so to cancel reserves.

nine reached vegas tuesday and first thing he did was contact msauce

following info. was obtained from nine upon request.

nine played the event on wed. at noon and busted at 1:30pm

nine posted that he busted when he got home at about 3 pm.

nine posted on his twitter that he busted almost immediately but not sure if he was a follower (on twitter)

msauce claims he sents a text to nine on wed. ~7pm to a wrong number.

so not only did msauce never gave nine his # but decided to make it "seller's responsibility" to contact him.

not only that, he had nine's # all along but made no attempt to let him know he's left vegas and to cancel reserves.

not only that, he then sent a text to a wrong # (screenshot?) and then says that "irrelevant" and goes on to digress into debating 2p2's marketplace policies and difference between booking and reserved.

not only that but he apparently sent this text to the wrong # after nine busted and posted on couple outlets hes out

idk why msauce wouldve done this I have no idea and not sure if he set out to angle/freeroll but there are several inconsistencies in his story and he's in the wrong imo

imo msauce owes nine ainec

THat's all cool.


Maybe re-read your posts before clicking "submit".

Doubt I'm a 'random' in the world of MTT's brah.

What a mess. I hate PTP as I stated in a thread here recently, bc they screwed me in a spot where I was admittedly not wrong. I wish I could go to that site to stake.

But with online staking they are the standard for... online staking. If this were to happen there, if the shares aren't shipped the stake/BAP would never have started. In this facet msauce is not at fault.

At the same time his rep is tarnished and its a shame we can't sticky this and keep this from happening again. If you stipulate that it has to be paid in person and aren't anywhere close to Vegas at the time, you need to pay him his money.

What a mess...