Why don't you each pick a friend you consider to be 2p2 savvy, logical, and respected in the poker world. someone who doesn't know either of you will act as the mediator and the 3 of them will come up with a fair solution if at all possible

I think this is the best way to come up with a conclusion to this disaster, I'd assume redgrape and tim are both extremely stressed about this and want to put it behind them.

I think we're using arbitration/mediation in a more general sense, not a legal one, what we all want is redgrape to be fairly compensated for tims mistake.

JY's comment that ppl should pitch in a couple % is the dumbest thing I ever heard from a business standpoint. You would go broke in the business world very quick if you think like that and staking is a business investment. Ppl make mistakes and tmay obviously made an innocent one by not closing out his thread before a 10k tournament but the investors are not the one to take the hit for his mistake because the world just doesn't work like that.

In reality he should owe the full 10% but I think in this case a bit of mediation could work if redgrape is willing to do so. I think somebody's suggestion above of like 3% for this tourney and a small freeroll for the next could work. Input from everybody here and a final arbitrator/mediation solution should be posted and followed through on. A rule should then be put into place in the sticky for if this happens again to not allow for possible angle shooting. Innocent mistake I'm sure but just get it taken care of to avoid a hit to your reputation and give redgrape a fair resolution since he was trying to do you and the marketplace a favor by purchasing action.

Why not take the average of 10 percent of his chip equity going into day 2 and 10 percent of his winnings? Seems like a decent compromise IMO.

Probably best solution so far.

After reading this thread I can't see how tmay is not in the wrong. He stated that after you send you are booked, it is HIS responsibility to close out his action and return the funds if over booked before starting the tournament. These investors purchased an investment before the start of the tournament, to have the investment cancelled during the tournament is ludacris. This seems like an honest mistake on tmay's part but it is in fact his mistake and shareholders are not to blame. This all seem's pretty clear and I can't see how there is negotiations flying around here.

Redgrape was justifiably mad about Tmay's comment that Redgrape was "a smart enough kid" to know that the action was sold. Basically Tmay accused Redgrape of knowing the action was sold out and making a malicious last minute purchase. This is a ridiculous and baseless accusation and goes against the rest of the post.

The only arbitration I know is baseball! That means no compromise fwiw. Its either 0 or 10%. I think its pretty obvious thats not how it should be done and as someone pointed out, an average of 10% of stack at the time of Tmays first post and 10% of final winnings seems fair.

I considered this as well because basically going in a timeline redgrape booked and paid for 10% before FE did. It was FE who bought 10% when tmay was actually sold out, not redgrape.

I'm not sure.

Obviously FE bought his 10% in good faith but then again so did redgrape (again before FE did).

I did notice that FE ignored this post and also ignored Zima on two seperate occasions earlier itt when asked when and how much % he had bought in tmay so maybe he is unsure of the standings as well.

Meh, I got an A- in a law school contracts course, and I'm not convinced that TMay and redgrape have a contract. Specifically, I'm not totally convinced that TMay's OP alone constitutes an offer. It more resembles an invitation for prospective buyers of his action to make an offer (which TMay could consequently reject) rather than a positive offer to the world at large that remains valid up until the MTT starts. I haven't participated all that much in MP, but it seems to me that MP threads customarily include some subsequent correspondent between the buyer/seller, such as a PM, IM, "booked" post or a post with a summary of the action.

It's also reasonable to assume that the response "once you ship you are booked," despite not containing quotes of the posts it addressed, was directed to the people who had already reserved action. I doubt he was making an offer to the world there, he was simply continuing the negotiation with the offerors (ie scor and OneTimeNow333) by stating the terms of his acceptance ("ship online asap"). Depending on whether OneTimeNow333 sent soon enough to qualify "asap" (a whole week later) could be material, but it seems like it would be kind of nitty and it's all moot anyway because TMay paid him. With redgrape, it looks like an offer that was never accepted (despite him having sent redgrape the money).

I've got to go drinking, and I'm not totally convinced I'm right (especially if it's MP custom to view threads that haven't been closed or threads in which the OP hasn't expressly said he's sold out as fair game), so people who know the MP norms better and/or got A's in 1L contracts at better law schools (TFT) feel free to correct me.

you make a lot of sense and there is so much logic in your argument i can't see any resolution other than me giving redgrape my 10%

Accusing Redgrape of somehow knowing or even assuming action was all bought up is so insulting and just plain wrong. This is completely Tmay's fault but he just doesn't realize it since he's not a mp vet. It wouldn't surprise me too if his 2p2 savvy friends are not being straight up with him with regard to what % of this is his fault. Anyway....

I like this

and this

Hopefully this can be figured out/put to rest soon.

I've never met Tim, but all of our mutual friends say he's a good dude so I'm sure he is, he's just stuck in a ****ty situation right now.

The one part that I have trouble with is:

You say that Grape should have known that your action was most likely sold out for the tournament....but then you say that Fatal bought 10% (of the 15% you had left that you originally wanted to sell) minutes before the tournament. So when Grape posted on here that he wanted 10% (I think 2 or 3 days before the tournament started), it was available.

Well Tmay sold action through 3 channels from what I can gather, here on the marketplace, through a large backer and to friends/other players on the circuit.

Why should the problem that he has oversold himself all sit with one invester Redgrape? Because he is the one that Tmay wasn't aware he had sold to? It was clearly sold well in advance of the start of the tourney and there is written documentation of it.

If people want to help Tmay out here because it was an honest mistake, then the fairest solution would be for all the investers to take a reduced cut so that Tmay gets to keep the original % he intended in himself. Funny how not one invester has suggested this, yet they are coming in this thread telling us what a nice guy Tmay is and how Redgrape needs to be 'reasonable' in a compromise.

This doesn't make sense at all to me. You are basically saying Tmay should get the action he wanted/planned and all the other investors should pay for his mistake.

__________________


If it was 0% or 10%, I am pretty sure it should be 10%.

________________________

personally at this point, I think they should meet in the middle and Tmay should give him 5% if Redgrape is ok with it and be done with it. move on etc...just a bad situation and i feel for both parties involved.
____

I'm not really a fan of the future free roll thing but w/e works to get it worked out i guess.

I'm saying it is 10%, it is pretty clear the action was booked.

If people want to do TMay a favour because it was an honest mistake/bad situation, then that should fall on all of the investers not just Redgrape.

ya but you also said Tmay should get the original action he intended for himself which is absurd. It is not the other investors place to make his wrongs a right. honest mistake or not

i wasnt even close to kidding...

are you serious?

I mean you have people that are tim's friends or at least acquaintances that just made 17k for 10% off of him...

its completely unreasonable for any of them to offer up 1700 of there 17k they just made to help out there friend and to smooth over the situation?
they see tmay is backed into a corner here...its all about ****ing greed. I'm not knocking redgrape at all, its just a ****ed situation, and its obv stupid to think that fatalerror shouldnt have his 10% booked...but again, he is another guy that i dont see how it is so far-fetched to throw redgrape 1% maybe have another investor that profited throw him a % and have tmay kick over a few % and the whole thing is over with, and everyone is happy...this doesnt have to be dragged out forever leaving a sour taste in anyones mouth...and its late and im tired so i cant quote whoever else commented on this...i understand its business...but things in life are not always black and white...if you live life with things always black and white, it makes things harder. obviously its not a great business decision to give away $...but nobody is going broke by giving redgrape a little piece out of there winnings...

/rant

if it was me in this situation, i'd be doing what I could to help out my friend and make the situation right

Ya I'm not saying that all the other investers should pay for Tmay's mistake. My post was badly worded. Just that any compromise should be between Tmay and his investers as a whole not just redgrape.

Just to clarify, arbitrators in disputes like this usually decide in accordance with the governing law, which in this case would result in an all or nothing decision, because legally the action was either booked or it wasn't. Sure you could theoretically empower an arbitrator to consider a compromise here, but then you're losing objective standards for him to make a decision. What is the arbitrator's decisional basis going to be: just do what you think is fair?

And as Superfluous Man's post pointed out, the ultimate legal issue here is far from clear, at least IMO.

i wish FE would respond to me as well. I know of some skeletons he and his GF have in the closet and i dont wanna release them. Be a man and respond to me FE.


(kidding/joke, but do think its a bit strange you skip over my questions when you are obv reading the thread)

meh, not sure if you givng the 10% is correct, but i dont really think its as far fetched as you think.



this def needs to go to arbitration and def needs to be binding. tmay is in good standing in the community as many legit people have said "he is trustworthy etc", but if he doesnt solve this the right way, i am not sure what his rep will be in the future.



and i like you jason young, but some of the things you have said in this thread are ridic.

+1
How is this even close? The 10% was sent days before the event started. Tmay obviously has the responsibility to check the thread or his accounts before selling off the final piece. Anything other than redgrape getting 10% is bull****.

I think Tim and Jon are coming off quite bad in this thread, especially with their attitudes about this

agreed

The only thing we know for sure is that Tmay will put in a great effort when he has less then 10% of himself. Goes win and 2nd back to back and after expenses prob broke even for the two events.