Quote:
Originally Posted by RobFarha
Not only is this so, so, wrong and something that I personally take offense to, but it's really short-sighted and probably based on something you want to believe based on your own career choice.
Let me preface this by saying that there is nothing wrong with working in a professional work environment. I have plenty of friends that work office jobs, friends that are engineers, friends that work in finance etc. They hate it for the most part in the same way I "hate" poker. It doesn't make poker bad, just like it doesn't make finance bad. When you do something for thousands of hours, it becomes less enjoyable.
To state that people who choose to play poker as opposed to working in an office job because they are incapable of keeping an office job is ridiculous. In my own personal life I chose to play poker because it gives me freedom, it makes me more money than I would make in an office job and most importantly it keeps me constantly engaged. Not because I couldn't of gotten a 3.5 in college and spend the rest of my days as an accountant.
I can name a boatload of poker players that had great grades in school, great jobs before finding poker, all of which are very smart.
To have enough success in poker to make a reasonable living takes a lot of hard work in today's games. The games are a lot tougher now than they once were. It also takes someone who can be responsible for themselves and not reliant on a boss to tell you what to do and when to do it. I get the whole "lazy" stigma attached, a lot of guys wake up at noon and don't do a whole lot of physical exercising and what not. It depends how you define lazy. Is it lazy for me to wake up at noon and play 8 hours, come home spend another 2 hours watching videos? I suppose the fact that poker players aren't required to wake up at 7am with a tie on makes them "intrinsically lazy".
When I say to not play 50 hours a week, this is not me telling people, or myself, to play 15 hours a week and spend the rest of the time drinking. If you want to be successful, you need to put forth effort, and have discipline much like anything else in life.
I will agree that a lot of poker players are just idiotic degens that couldn't cut it in a professional work environment. But guess what? They won't cut it in poker for very long either.
The people who are successful enough to make a good living playing poker and save bankrolls tend to be bright young people who chose an alternative life of freedom and balance not because they had to, but because it seemed more appealing to them.
I'm not going to have a debate with you on whether or not its better to go to college and get a steady job vs playing poker. For what it's worth I would agree with your side based on there being more stability and much less stress.
To say people who are successful (not random XYZ fish who won some donkament and now went "pro") chose poker because they had no other option is just incorrect.
Yes. You making and more importantly saving should be at the forefront. This doesn't mean locking yourself in a casino all week being miserable. Balance, yo.
His choce of the word professional is sub par but the point he is making still stands.
Poker PLayers, not the self selecting ones on 2p2(although 2p2 has an abnormal percentage of low lifes and lazy people), choose the game because they see it as a get rich quick scheme(I know thats how started, the Moneymaker effect happened for a reason and it wasnt because people were intrigued by a game of skill). Maybe they stick with it for other reasons, but a lot of players justify after the fact hey like the challenge and are competitive in nature, but this is just not true for a vast majority. It may, again, be wise they stuck with it and became successful, but the true reason is that a lot of people were looking for an easy way to get rich without "working" hard. This is obviously ignorance as that is never the case to become successful, but again its the reason people choose this.
In regards to whether poker players as a whole are lazy. I absolutely agree. I am sorry but 30 hours a week of 1/2 is lazy. And the reasoning that you play subpar when you play more justifies this(imho). You have a mind state that prevents you from pushing through and focusing on a task. This seems like almost the textbook definition of laziness. IN fact here it is:
is a disinclination to activity or exertion despite having the ability to do so
Now the problem stems from people automatically viewing lazy as a bad thing. It isnt. There is not a single thing that makes it inherently bad. Almost everyone is lazy in certain aspects. I am alazy at doing the dishes, but this isnt something that affects me and I eventually get it done when it comes to a point where I want them done. I think the problem with poker players is that they are lazy about things but want the results as if they were not lazy. People want freedom, ability to travel, being able to do what they want but they dont want to work for it. How many weight loss gaols have you seen on PG&C or from poker players in general. Poker Players are lazy about a lot of things they dont want to be lazy about.
People say I want to be able to play 60 hours a week but cant and play my A game. Thats laziness. Work hard and focus and you can achieve it. Many problems with poker volume stem from a wandering mind. People wanting results that are not coming or simply getting bored. This is something people who are not lazy in regards to activities push through and focus. You think everyone who works really hard wants to be doing that? You think surgeons want to work long hours at times? No. But when they do they push through it and focus.
The freedom aspect you talk about is probably a large contributing factor, as they can easily just stop playing and come back again at another time. But if you have ambitions you have to push through and focus.
Not saying there are not times when you shouldn't play, but if you want it bad, 50 hours in a week is not hard.
Also you dont really believe this do you:
"The people who are successful enough to make a good living playing poker and save bankrolls tend to be bright young people who chose an alternative life of freedom and balance not because they had to, but because it seemed more appealing to them"
Balance? What Balance? Do you read anything posted on 2p2? Outside of the top 1% of winning poker players, there are not many people who pursue a healthy balance of things while playing poker full time.
Please note I am not saying that you are lazy. I am just saying you are looking through rose-coloured glasses if you truly believe a lot of the things you say. Almost every poker player(I am no exception) have achievable non luck oriented goals they set that they WANT to achieve and dont. I dont know what laziness is if not that.
This is nothing against Duke, he actually seems to have a great viewpoint on things right now. Just make sure if you want some sort of sucess in poker, you are willing to work for it. I see too many people saying they want something and just not putting in the work to get it, but having plenty of excuses. Their mindsets seems to be the favorite when it comes to volume trouble, and this is a sign of laziness, like I said.
