Actually what I meant by I will bite...

Cmon, you have to have had spots where a lightbulb just went off in your head and your entire poker career turned down a slightly different path. No?

talk your head off, just don't talk about poker; specifically dont mention the ranks, suits, or streets by name..
mum poker doesnt have to mean being silent; just cutting out the
poker-chatter. (discussing/ analyzing of hands at the table).
I'm sure its covered in Tommy Angelos' 'Elements of Poker'.
if you don't have it, fix that asap.

http://tommyangelo.com

maybe its not so much about poker itself, but i remember when i was doing plumbing, occasionally i would get my own jobs, and i did a bathroom model in Sausalito on my own. I did pretty well, and it took me @ a month.
I didnt play any poker during that time, and directly afterwards, i played 3 sessions at the old California Grand in Pacheco (when it was a dive, across the street from where it is now; this was @6-7 years ago).
I must have run like God, and the games were ridiculously soft back then, but i made more $ in 3 nights than i had all month slaving away.
maybe not exactly an epiphany, but it made me feel like i was throwing $ away by not playing. I wasn't as aware of variance as i am now (still a leak for me), and i hadnt gotten to the point of taking the game seriously enough to [I][really/I] study it, and commit myself. (sure, i had a few books, including Sklanskys' 'Theory of Poker'.), but maybe this was an experience that made it really sink in that
there was money to be made in poker, and that working sucked?
there was one nitty guy who played there every day, and i knew he made a living at it.

i continued to play there for years, and thats where i first established myself as a real winner, and was able to prove to myself that i could do it. >>> (not such a big feat, when you consider how bad the field was.) still, this chapter boosted my confidence. I stopped playing there when i realized how usurious the rake was with the 'no flop- take the whole drop' thing, and how much $ i was giving away by playing there.

Another was when i went to Vegas in the summer of '08 for the entire 6 weeks of WSOP, and managed to do well, even though i sucked way worse at pokers than i do now.
( I spent way too much $); now i realize that it was a meaningless sample size, and that i ran well, but it gave me a sense that i could handle. (would actually play more 5/10 back then, ironically.)

tbh, i think the real epiphany came when my a-hole boss intentionally broke someones cell phone out of race hatred on a job site, and i walked off, because i didnt want to be around when someone hit him in the back of the head with a framing hammer. (dude was actually irish, and Chris hated them more than every other 'race' put together.) he just snapped.
i had put myself in some dangerous spots working for him, and i had to draw the line.
his actions, and persona were stupid, as well as uncouth, (for a millionaire), and i didnt want to be associated with it anymore. I had been 3 stories up a ladder balancing an acetylene tank, and soldering DWV copper in SF to make a buck for this guy, WTF??
knowing i could always make $ made it easier to walk off.
then again, I'm the kind of monkey that doesnt need to get ahold of a new limb to let go of the old one. I'll figure it out in mid air.

Did no talking at all. In fact one guy asked me what I have and I ignored him. He did not like it and spewed the rest of his chips. Put him on tilt. I did really good 3BI's but I wont credit it to being silent, however I like it in general when nothing is said. I already come off as a serious player, even when Im joking.

Overall not talking poker is +EV for me. Is it the same for someone else... IDK.

You were talking about not worrying about other things like a short roll or bills and what not. Is there a time where you have personally considered to stop playing and regroup? How bad would it have to be for you to do something like that?

I've had personal stuff go down where i couldn't play because i was'nt capable of focusing at all. (it was bad).
At first, i tried to play through it, but
I guess i wasn't tough enough for that, because i went on my biggest downswong ever. (don't ask, i don't discuss results).
I realized that i had to take a big step back from the game in order to survive.
that's what you have a bankroll for, afterall;
Downswings, and breaks.
(luckily, my roll was at its all time high when this happened).
it's taken me a good chunk of time to 'regroup', if i even have completely?
When i did play after a while, i moved down to 1/2, and my goal was'nt to build my roll anymore, but just to cover my expenses, and to keep from losing my roll altogether through paying bills. (I came close).
definately a humbling experience, and was more proof to me that there's one factor you can't take out of the poker equation, ever:
yourself.

Any special anti-tilt techniques? I find I'm getting pretty good at getting over suck-outs and other bad play by Vs getting lucky, but I'm pretty bad still at bouncing back from bad decisions on my part.

just cuz VeniceT had poor enuf judgement to give me a well
doesnt mean that i'm some kinda authority.
I've already referenced Tommy Angelo, and credited him. he pretty much covers it.
If i know anything about tilt, it's because i'm a terrible tilt monkey myself,
and have had to make it the focus of my studies for long stretches.

most of all i would say 'know thyself';
you're gonna tilt. period.
if youre one of those guys/gals who claims that they don't have a tilt problem,
you're kidding yourself, which makes it even more dangerous, imo.
anyways, my point is that monitoring yourself is the key;
If you can conquer that, and have the discipline to manage yourself accordingly, it's the majority of the whole struggle.
that's the problem with ppl who claim 'no tilt problem' because they never go on 'hard tilt';
they arent even to square one in the game of monitoring, and knowing themselves.
in the meantime, they are on 24/7 'tight tilt', LOL.

sounds like you've got a handle on what's going on with you,
that you tilt from self-crititicism due to poor performance.
Mum Poker will help, because you will become increasingly habituated to not analyzing at the table.
(save that for apres-session de-briefing).

play more poker.- the more you play, the more you will be able to 'forget' a hand.
I have a annoyingly good memory for hands, so have to actually make an effort to block s&#yt out after a while. you want to remember the hand, but just learn to 'file it away' for now.
easier said than done, i know...

so, it's about monitoring, and knowing yourself,
but it's also about depending on yourself.
nobody can really help you besides yourself ultimately regarding something as gnarly as tilt.
youre on your own, and sometimes the best help available is a voice reminding you of just that; that theres no quick fix that doesnt require you doing the hard work yourself.

One day a friend introduced me to Tommy at Luckys.
(I was in the 3/5, he was in the 5/10)

I had seen him around b4, did'nt know it was him, and figured him prolly for a fish, and certainly some kinda nerd.

I asked him about coaching, and this is what he told me:



in other words, he did'nt hold anything back; he isn't keeping any secrets.
a 70k value is available for peanuts, if you don't need a coach to hold your hand.
all the content that he charges big coin for to random nose bleed pros (RNBPs)
is equally available to all. you have to do the work, either way, even if you paid on the VIP plan.

RNBP: "Tommy, can you help me with my tilt problem?"

Tommy: "no, but you can."

RNBP: "Wow, Tommy, thanks"

Tommy: "no, thank you. now, that'll be 70k."

I ate at Gary Danko a number of years ago and had a phenomenal experience there, but it could never have been a Michelin four-star restaurant because Michelin never awards more than three. I think one should take Michelin stars with a heavy dose of salt, but for the sake of accuracy Gary Danko debuted at one star when the first bay area guide was released in 2006, and I'm pretty sure it's remained at one ever since. Amen to the old dog with no new tricks remark, though - just look at Charlie Trotter's.

I've also eaten at The French Laundry and had a truly fantastic time there as well, so I just wanted to make public the fact that while that restaurant may be overpriced, the food is pretty damn good.

Stampler, thanks for running this well - it's definitely a different perspective.

Gary Danko opened his eponymous restaurant in 1999. I'm prolly thinking Mobil guide, actually.
I wouldnt suggest anyone go there, unless youre interested in ridiculously over the top service.
I started there in 2000, and lasted @ a year and a half before i had a nervous breakdown, and decided it wasn't worth giving up surfing, and enjoying my life. esp. since it involved making no money.
so, ive been out of it for over 10 years, and am now a foodie of another sort.
(could care less about dining out myself, and never did, really)
I was working for his protege, Lance, at his own short-lived, but trendy restaurant, Neo (SF chronicle top 10) previous to that, and that was the 3rd place where i had worked with him. (he was a big hot-head, and one place was literally a week.)
I have to admit that not only did i learn most of what i know about cooking from Lance,
I just learned a lot about striving to perform on a high level, and what that meant; about focus, and commitment; and i think the things i picked up in cooking have carried over in a positive way into other areas in my life as well.

love this thread...love hearing about mum poker, which is how i've played since i was old enough to play live anyway...one question though, do you think clothes make the man? how do you dress at the table, what do you think about the bad guys based on how they dress, does a person's clothing choice even really matter?

I cleared this with the Well owner before I submitted... I love this topic so I had to put my input in.



Yes your clothes do matter. I think wearing casino garb, glasses, headphones, hoodies do put off a signal of "I am a serious player." It's one of the things I look for when I first walk in the casino. If I see a table full of young guys with headphones on it's probably a sign that I don't want to sit there. It does not always mean that, but it's pretty dang close. Now - there is a way to get around all of that if you are the one actually wearing any of that. Be nice at the table. Chat it up (just not poker). Talk golf, hunting, family or w/e. People tend to lighten up when you take some interest in them. They may still think you are something serious, but they also let their guard down just enough. I was mum poker the other night with glasses on and I still found some time to chat up an old timer just enough that he shook my hand on the way out and said it was a pleasure playing with me. I may have said 20 words to the guy and because of that he allowed me to take advantage of his passive nature. No lie. Think of what I could of done with a whole conversation. I always say wear what is comfortable to you, but make sure you accommodate your neighbors and be respectful and light hearted in nature (Tony Dunst is a perfect example - Dude is the epitome of this). You do that and they will give the same respect back to you. Deep inside though you remain TMWNN - a cold ruthless killer.

I swear my sunglasses at the table but mainly because it lets me feel like I am more in my own little world.

Its all about comfort. If you feel comfortable in Poker Stars moon boots and a Full Tilt Thong - Do yo dam thang! I think peoples initial reaction to it all is "This guy is a douche and he thinks he's pro, look at the big scary pro..." If you butter them up though, they change their minds. And if they don't change their mind and it bothers them that much... They are probably the douches and trust me, it will show and the whole table will know.

I do it all the time. If I'm talking to a guy who I think is good, I say something like "You seem like a good player. Can I get your email? There's a few hands I want to get your opinion on" or something. I met like 5-6 cool people doing this and I can actually run some hands by them if I need to.

funny question.
actually i'm trying to not spend any more $ on clothing over the next 6 months, minimum. starting to consider it a leak of sorts, since i am a terrible shopper and do it impulsively.
I've just got plenty of clothes at this point.
I tend to dress conservatively; dress shirt, ect... golf short in the summer.
not so much for how ppl will view me regarding poker,
but because for me, it just makes me feel better to not be a slob.

re: your question about profiling based on dress;
it's ridiculous to think that it could have much of an influence on a smart player;
but, it does happen with players who love to level themselves.
for example:

because i'm in the older crowd (some grey hair), as an experiment, when i wear a hawaiian shirt amongst some unknown grinder-pros, they respond to it like its a buzz-bomb lure or something, and it pisses them off, and they hit it like a f%&*n rooster-fish would, constantly trying to ISO me.. which may not always work out for them so well, when its utterly transparent to me what they are doing.

kinda funny, cuz in mexico, they make home-made fishing lures out of chrome car bumpers, and call them "brillantes", meaning 'bright', as in, hurts your eyes.

There are definitely sleepers in poker. But I think the way one dresses and/or carries themselves speaks volumes about their game. We need to use all the information we have in front of us when we first sit down in order to determine what we are getting into.

Later we can adjust it when we get information on how our opponents are playing. Not everyone that can shuffle chips is the next Durrrr, but it at least tells us they feel confident, have played poker a few times, and probably puts some thought into their game.

I sat down the other night the first guy I spotted was a guy with a casino jacket and hat on- Observation #1. He is shuffling his chips- #2 From this I formed an immediate opinion that I have some what of a player at the table. The rest of what he did tipped off his whole playbook. You could tell he thought he was better than the table based off his body language and conversation and because of the information that he readily gave to everyone you could tell he was somewhat auto-piloting. He did play pretty well overall though.

Not everyone old is a nit, and not everyone young wearing headphones is an internetz grinder, but for a lot of the time we can and should base our initial impressions on things like clothing. Stereotyping is a big part of the game IMO. Whether you are good at it or not is another issue. I would guess most people would think they are good at it but really are not. Here is an exercise I like to do both at poker and IRL. Guess the occupation. I don't always whip this out, but sometimes its fun. I was sitting at the Wynn one day (long time ago) and was chatting with the guy next to me. The way he dressed, talked, and presented himself was that of a commercial airline pilot. I am dead locked on it the whole time. We get to talking and I ask him, "What do you do for a living?" him, "I fly for United." The other day I am calling my players and letting them know about practice. I talk to a parent of one of the kids. First thought in my head is, "This guy is a cop." Sure enough he works for a local department. Stereotyping by age/gender/race/clothing/presentation are all powerful things. I would not take it as far as calling it a level. It may be that it's just not an important factor for your game as it may be in someone else's. In fact beyond stereotyping I would say that because I may know current fashion trends or how certain cultures dress I may have an advantage over you when being able to talk it up with certain people. You may not be able to relate to a young black kid wearing rocawear where as I could chat him up because I somewhat know what he is into or where he is coming from. It's part of the hustle. You stereotype people and then you turn it around on them. I am lucky because my father in law is 72 years old and I know old timer jokes and things they like to talk about. So when I see an old timer I can relate to him much easier.

Yeah image is an important factor. But I'm not the guy looking for clothes. I'm looking for the quiet guy with diamond rings on. He is the guy that will pay off light. Then when I get a call on an obvious board sometimes I think of limon "you just missed value kid". I always seem to outlevel myself vs rich donks. I figure hey, if he has a hand vs my "nuts" the hand will play out it self.

Image is everything, but clothes that can be a disguise, you need to be able to look deeper into a person, if you want to be a successful shark.

I would consider fat diamond rings an article of jewelery which falls into the category of article of clothing. I also included sunglasses and headphones in my OP.

Fair enough. I didn't say you was wrong. Just added my 2 cents and what I look for.

Favorite/least favorite thread?

Still curious about why you use the "enter" key so much.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Poetry_vs_Prose.