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11-25-2012 , 07:24 PM

#43176

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

Quote:

Originally Posted by SABR42

lol at raising the flop with AJcc in that hand.

How freakin terrible can you be?

i agree.

about that lotus elise... friend of a friend owns it. get to drive it around!

11-25-2012 , 07:29 PM

#43177

ACEvivKING

banned

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by venice10

I'm not trying to discourage you from posting

Seems like you were. I asked if there was a live newb thread and I was told to post it ITT.

[Comment deleted]

Last edited by venice10; 11-25-2012 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Still didn't read the stickies, now has time to do so.

11-25-2012 , 07:29 PM

#43178

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

btw... ILCD, once again your strategy advice is terrible. No wonder you can't move up.

I'm never raising that board with AJ in a 4b pot. I don't see the value in it. But with those stack sizes I would also probably try to avoid playing the 4bet pot with AJs.

11-25-2012 , 07:34 PM

#43179

iLikeCaliDonks

banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15,154

Well of course AJs is a horrendous call preflop. I was just commenting on postflop.

11-25-2012 , 07:36 PM

#43180

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACEvivKING

Seems like you were. I asked if there was a live newb thread and I was told to post it ITT.

Tipping was discouraged, if you had read it closer.

Last edited by venice10; 11-25-2012 at 09:39 PM.

11-25-2012 , 07:38 PM

#43181

iLikeCaliDonks

banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15,154

And even a worse 3bet. AJs is more +EV in mulitway pots then 3bet or 4bet pot lol.

11-25-2012 , 07:54 PM

#43182

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

masa was probably not raising if he expected the hand to go beyond flop.

11-25-2012 , 08:10 PM

#43183

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaUlater

masa was probably not raising if he expected the hand to go beyond flop.

i don't exactly understand what you mean by that. but, you're prolly right.

11-25-2012 , 08:11 PM

#43184

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,868

Quote:

Originally Posted by LolPony

Hand 1
Pre standard. I would be more likely to raise a QTx two hearts board rather than KQx just because people can't fold AK and KQ is a lot more likely in pfr. While you do have a strong draw here, raising accomplishes nothing if you have no fold equity. I guess when we raise he folds Qx but he's just checking those ott anyway. It sucks getting the money in when he has KK or QQ.

Hand 2
With the call of 55 we can be pretty sure he never has a straight so we want him in the pot. When the other guy reraises I'm almost never shipping. This is a straight like every single time. Calling seems pretty standard to get the other guy to come along. Shipping this flop seems Spewy to me. Unless reads say guy will stack off with overpairs.
Edit: just read two flush. Depending on stack sizes shipping more plausible

Hand 3
Seems pretty standard to me? As long as you're folding turn unimproved.

Yeah .. if she bets big on the turn I am gone. I might be good but I will fold to a second barrell.

11-25-2012 , 08:11 PM

#43185

miamicheats

i finance dead fish

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 17,164

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

I wasn't arguing with you miami...

That said, if you can steal the pot on a Q or a T, you probably aren't really stealing.

Oic. The double quote threw me off

11-25-2012 , 08:16 PM

#43186

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaraksh

i don't exactly understand what you mean by that. but, you're prolly right.

Assuming you guys are still talking about the hand where you raised to $210 or what not, obviously you weren't raising to play a 4-bet (or 3-bet, I lost count) pot against said villain.

If you had expectation of villain calling, then ILCD would be right.

11-25-2012 , 09:11 PM

#43187

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

^ two different hands. both AJ though.

- my hand was when I 4bet "bluffed" AJo against a dude who's line made no sense and got him to fold.

- what we are talking about now is the AJs hand that miamicheats played. Where he 3bet an open with AJcc, got 4b small, and flatted the 4b.
- flop came Jxx one club and we flatted a small c-bet. Turn came a Jo and we bet smallish, river came whatever, and we shipped.
- ILCD posted "HURRR ITS GOOD TO RAIZ DAT FLOP HERE GUYZ" and everyone (including me) is telling him he's ******ed and that raising flop here is a terrible play.

11-25-2012 , 09:14 PM

#43188

iLikeCaliDonks

banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15,154

Why would you let AK/AQ see a cheap turn. He is cbetting his entire range on that flop. It can easily be manipulated ott/or.

11-25-2012 , 09:18 PM

#43189

iLikeCaliDonks

banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15,154

If you think the guy has aa/KK and won't fold, than fold flop is the best play. Not call flop and fold turn. Floating is terrible right here.

11-25-2012 , 09:20 PM

#43190

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks

Why would you let AK/AQ see a cheap turn. He is cbetting his entire range on that flop. It can easily be manipulated ott/or.

Because we obviously think his range is more than just AK/AQ.

11-25-2012 , 09:21 PM

#43191

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaraksh

Aight. Thanks.

11-25-2012 , 09:22 PM

#43192

Jibber

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 486

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks

Why would you let AK/AQ see a cheap turn. He is cbetting his entire range on that flop. It can easily be manipulated ott/or.

villain could be cbetting with hands we now dominate. LETS TRY TO GET HIM TO FOLD THOSE ASAP.

11-25-2012 , 09:30 PM

#43193

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks

Why would you let AK/AQ see a cheap turn. He is cbetting his entire range on that flop. It can easily be manipulated ott/or.

lets say we actually KNEW with 100% certainty that in that hand villain holds AK/AQ (and only one of those two hands). then, against probably 99.9% of the players you will encounter flatting the Jxx flop with AJ will be better than raising the flop.

do you see why?

11-25-2012 , 09:34 PM

#43194

iLikeCaliDonks

banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15,154

Bare jack yeah, but not with nut flush bd, can't agree with you guys.

11-25-2012 , 09:37 PM

#43195

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

God, stove it.

11-25-2012 , 09:41 PM

#43196

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

we have a saying for this scenario in the MW, it is called "pissing into the wind and calling it a shower"

11-25-2012 , 09:44 PM

#43197

iLikeCaliDonks

banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15,154

According to ilcd aggressive theory. Having tptk with nut bd is fundamentally sound aggressive play to raise on the right board texture.

11-25-2012 , 09:52 PM

#43198

miamicheats

i finance dead fish

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 17,164

I'm probably wasting my time but...

ILCD-do you ever take into account anything other than board texture and your backdoor outs???

Hands play differently short, deep, in single raised pots, 3b pots and 4b pots.

11-25-2012 , 09:53 PM

#43199

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

yea but not in a 4b pot where is ranged is highly hands that beat us badly

11-25-2012 , 10:14 PM

#43200

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks

According to ilcd aggressive theory. Having tptk with nut bd is fundamentally sound aggressive play to raise on the right board texture.

Where board texture = if you flop top pair?

ilcd, I'm pretty sure I asked this before. But, can you please describe what this board texture is? You keep saying I'd raise on this board texture with out ever explaining what what that texture is and what makes it good forraising?

Can you explain how the extra 3% for the bd flush, or the like 20% of turning a fd makes up for taking a line that is essentially just going to put a lot of money in the pot with really really bad equity, fold worse hands that have reverse implied odds versus you, and very rarely get a better hand to fold?

Last edited by DevinLake; 11-25-2012 at 10:25 PM.

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