more like hoopsnake

more like happy bday

ty sir.

They've only been enforcing the UIGEA since June 1st, that's why. That's why the argument that "people have been saying poker has been dying for years but it's still here" is a ridiculous one.

Sooner later you'll see one of these:



See: http://joetall.com/blog/?p=923

since when has ftp been crediting acct with wire fees? I've just been eating that **** for years.

haha I think I've regressed since then...well no, the games are just tougher. But hey, I'm no Cakeless

If you try a Bank Transfer (max withdraw via this method is $950) and it fails, FTP will automatically wire your money to you and give you $50 for the fee. Bank Transfers are supposed to take up to 10-15 business days - when I tried one in early November the 15 business days passed and they sent me something pretty similar to what Skelm just posted.

So they wired my funds within a day or two or sending me that message and I was credited with the $50 on FTP. The wire only cost me $15 too so I guess I lucked out, although it took forever for the money to get to me.

Got one of those yesterday =(

I'm still working out what I think of the changes to the Reid Bill today. I hate to say it but I may now be against it :S If people want to do this also the best source is here: http://www.parttimepoker.com/what-is...ine-poker-bill

Meh. All I know is, I'll still be playing online poker regardless of what happens with this bill.

the bill in its current form is a disaster for online poker in the united states. and that is understanding the problems with the status quo in the near and distant future. if the ppa comments on the latest draft and suggests that we still support it I'll be done with them. I don't blame them for this, but at some point they have to realize that their no longer driving this bus and it's been hijacked by people that have none of our best interests (players pros or recreational) at heart.

LOL. Did you really think the PPA had your interests in mind at any point?

no. but i thought they had the interest of poker in the US in general at heart (which to some extent overlaps my interest as a professional). but if they support this version of the bill then they clearly don't give a **** about the game and all of their rhetoric is just bull ****. at that point I would suggest that they are fully in the pocket of various congressional interest groups as well as a few gaming corporations located in the US, and that in the best interests of the game poker players should not support them as an organization.

fwiw nick I don't really appreciate the patronizing tone of your last post. whether or not you agree with me on this stuff I'm not a moron.

It is sad that any bill is not going to have the players in mind at all. Its always going to be about the revenue for the casinos and how much money states/govt gets from the taxes of it. I am willing to realize this fact and take some concessions for a bill that would provide us more job stability, but you are right, this bill is beginning to look worse and worse. The worst part about the latest bill is that the 15 month blackout period could be extended if the regulations are not prepared in time. Also bad is that they added that states could still run intrastate online poker while opting out of the federal bill... That means the bigger states could get greedy, opt out of the fed bill and have an intrastate ipoker monopoly.

Does the PPA get money from FTP/Stars or any casinos? I guess the various links of their board of directors to sites provides enough evidence that they will not be completely on the players sides.

You should have been done with the PPA a long time ago.

this may be true. tbh I just don't know what the alternative is that is good for poker in the US. maybe you can get some traction in the HSNL thread.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacg...688&cycle=2010

Nick, can you explain why you hate the PPA so much? They have done plenty of positive things for internet poker in the past.

yeah, I'm also curious about that.

I guess I can't really think of anything that they've done, but maybe I'm forgetting something important? As far as I can tell, all they do is take money from people like, say, Ray Bitar, and see that it gets to people like Harry Reid or, apparently, the Libertarian National Congressional Committee.

I should add that I've had it out with some PPA people at 2p2 before, and my number one problem was their absolute lack of transparency and candor when it comes to who gives them money, how they use it, and who they are really representing. I don't like how they claim to represent poker players when, in fact, they represent corporate gaming interests first and foremost. In effect, the PPA facilitates bleeding the little guy (that's us) to help subsidize the big guy's (corporate gaming) goals. That's all well and good for us in the event that our preferences are aligned with those of corporate gaming but, the instant those are no longer in alignment, we see who gets the shaft.

based on your responses to me in this thread and the MSNL ftp regs thread I had (maybe erroneously) assumed you previously supported the Reid bill. Is this still the case?

That's impossible to say anymore, seeing as how the exact nature of the bill is a complete question mark. As I pointed out before, I considered the incarnation of the bill a few days ago to be the lesser of two evils. My main point is that I don't mind a 15 month blackout period, and I don't mind the IRS being able to follow each and every transaction made at a poker site. If more and more restrictions, conditions, regulations, taxes, and so on keep getting added to the bill, it obviously becomes decreasingly appealing.

This has little to do with the PPA, though. The people penning the language in the bill are lobbyists, such as those employed by the IGC and the myriad entities that are beholden to the likes of MGM-Mirage, CEC, and so on. As far as I can tell, the PPA does nothing when it comes to creating legislation but, rather, ships money from one set of entities to another to buy votes for the legislation that large gaming interests are creating and backing via their lobbying firms. They do this according to the directions of the very people whose names you see listed among their $5,000 donors who, in fact, are the very same people that are behind the legislation in question. Remember: politicians don't actually create legislation anymore. They just push it through committee, have more lobbyists tweak it, and vote on it.

Absolutely nowhere in this chain are our interests as players considered. The PPA does us all a disservice by claiming to represent us and, in doing so, giving us a placebo that makes it harder for an actual player advocacy group to emerge - a group, mind you, that would have to ask all the same players for donations who already donated to the PPA.

CliffsNotes: The PPA is like extra rake.

i think much of the above post would be valuable information to a lot of misinformed folks in the legislation forum. I know it is somewhat of a circus over there, but why not start a thread? I don't think you need to try and refute or follow every response, but I'm a little frustrated by the lack alternative view points to the standard pro-PPA and pro-Reid bill rhetoric I read over and over again.

Especially considering the PPA through their reps on 2p2 have certainly made it seems as though they have some influence on this (and previous) bills if not actually having worked on the writing of them. The more this battle continues the more hypocritical their position seems.

I could just be rambling at this point, but I'm just a little sick of this whole charade. I was a little disappoined with the PPA's support of the original bill, but enough people expressed support and there were enough potential positives that I at least held out a little hope that it's passage wouldn't be a disaster. Now it seems that instead of maintaining any kind of pro-poker and pro-player stance the PPA and Reid are showing that their true interests lie with US gaming corporations. Not that I'm shocked (as I thought the first version of the bill seemed like it was written by Harrahs and MGM) but at this point it seems that poker players in the US should consider rallying against this bill.

ninja edit because my last sentence was ******ed.

So they have given the most money to Menendez, Barney Frank and Harry Reid. I really do not have a problem with this since those three have been the only ones that have produced bills that would legalize poker.

I don't really have a problem with them representing corporate gaming either. The government isn't going to legalize poker because they believe in our right to play the game. The only way they will legalize it is because of money. I don't see the PPA making any progress with a players first attitude. The PPA says that they have tried to make player friendly amendments to the Reid bill (decreased blackout time, allowing foreign companies in earlier than planned) Sure, those directly benefit FTP, but they also help us as well.
I am on the fence on the bill as it is, but I think it needs to happen to provide stability for us. One thing I can understand is that if you think this bill has too many negatives to it and the PPA is just pushing it through for the sake of having any bill pushed through.

Otherwise, I think the PPA has done a fair job helping? to get poker bills drawn up and a very good job of speaking for poker in the media. Anytime John Pappas has been on a news program debating with someone, he puts forth a well spoken argument defending poker and usually makes any opponent look stupid.

There's absolutely no way I'm starting a thread in the legislation forum, because I simply do not have enough forks in my drawer to gouge myself with in the resulting torrent of idiocy that will inevitably follow. Like I said, I've had it out with these PPA clowns before, and I find their arguments completely ridiculous.

I don't think there is any political recourse for us as players. We are simply too busto and too disorganized compared to the gaming operators. Our only chance is to battle said operators directly by making them offer the best possible conditions for us to play in.

What does the PPA actually do to get bills drawn up? What bills? It doesn't bother me in particular that the PPA is giving Harry Reid or Barney Frank money. What bothers me is the hypocrisy, and the gall to solicit donations from players that serve only to relax the burden on corporate gaming that comes from trying to buy legislation, all under the guise of being a "poker players" alliance.