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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

11-25-2013 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
Probable chop on double paired board, raise anyway?
PS: this is a dumb question. It was literally the only borderline decision I had all session this weekend

1-2, Cleveland Horseshoe, I raise from EP with KQ, get way too many callers.

Flop $40.
QQ9 rainbow. I check, person on my left bets $20. He's unknown, seems straightforward to this point, not too fishy. I call, everyone else folds.

Turn $80, 9 of something
I check/call $30 with my boat. My thinking here is on a double paired board, I'm most likely either chopping, playing against a 9, or he has nothing. Most players fold the 9s/air to a raise, and I'm just paying more rake against the queens.

$140
River (brick, doesn't matter)
I check, Villain bets $50, I call. Same logic as above.

Is my logic faulty? Do I raise even if I think he folds all the nines, hoping Zeebo theorem takes over?
Is the rake uncapped?

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11-25-2013 , 10:24 PM
it's high but it's capped (6+1 I think), I'm sure we hit the cap, now that I look at it.

The rake is not a good reason, I was just so sure at the time there was no value in a river raise. Now I'm less sure.
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11-25-2013 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
it's high but it's capped (6+1 I think), I'm sure we hit the cap, now that I look at it.

The rake is not a good reason, I was just so sure at the time there was no value in a river raise. Now I'm less sure.
Yeah raise, A high could call

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11-25-2013 , 10:49 PM
There is a 0% chance you are beat on the river. (Ok, 99, but whatever, pretty much 0.)
There is a 10% or greater chance he will call a bet with worse.

Raise.
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11-26-2013 , 06:56 AM
To be clear, I wasn't worried about 99 (a big step for me, lol, I'm usually the MUBS king).
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11-26-2013 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
There is a 0% chance you are beat on the river. (Ok, 99, but whatever, pretty much 0.)
There is a 10% or greater chance he will call a bet with worse.

Raise.
Ya, pretty much this.

I mean, maybe if we're playing 2K deep and would throw up in our mouth a bit if he shoved over our raise, then maybe I could see getting MUBSy here and just calling. But otherwise, he only has to call a raise with a worse hand like once out of a million for this to be profitable, and I'm sure he calls with a worse hand a lot more than that; with reasonable stacks, I'm pretty much always shoving.

Gwecanonlygettheirstackifweaskforit,sopolitelyaskf oritandseewhathappensG
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11-26-2013 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
7way limped pot, Hero is in BB with Q5ss.

Flop is Q43ss cuz god likes me. I bet $25 into ~$25 cuz I feel I has a good hand. Only Villain in EP calls.

Villain is 50ish middle eastern guy I've never played with. Earlier he was commenting on how horrible a maniac was playing (maniac was betting blind to the turn/river and I eventually stacked him twice), and Villain is saying how "this is not poker, this is horrible, this is bingo". He has played pretty ABC but he still seems fairly noobish / bad. He likes to bet $10 on flop and turn with weakish hands; he has folded fairly easy to aggression with these weak bets. He once was able to fold a straight on a paired / 3-to-a-flush river vs 2 players giving action.

Turn 6r. I now have TPnK with a flush draw and an OESD. Pot is $75 and Villain has $150 left.

What should be our plan at this point?

I ended up betting $25. Obviously this is a lol bet, but my reasoning is that it's possible my hand is best and I simply want to take down the pot now as cheaply as possible (it's possible Villain has something like 99). If my hand ain't best, I should still be getting awesome odds to chase all my draws, even if Villain raises me (and if he does raise me, my guess is that it will be a lol size giving me good odds).

Villain calls. Q on the river so now I have what is known as "trips". Pot is $125 and Villain has $125 left.

Now what?

Spoiler:

I shove, Villain beats me into the pot with Q6 fullhouse. At the time, I was thinking that if I check Villain can then check behind hands that he might pay off (JJ- perhaps, for TWO PEAR!). And if he bets then I feel I'm probably committed. But maybe I'm not committed against this guy and could fold to a bet?

I felt I screwed up this hand, although I must admit I'm not exactly sure where. Did the turn bet create too large a pot for a mediocre hand (although, being totally results oriented, I'm sure Villain would have ended up betting more had I checked).


GcluelessNLnoobG
Grunch. This nit has you out-kicked (QJ, QT, Q9), or would he raise those? But I don't think I could get away from it in real time. You can also bet-fold. I think it is leveling yourself to think he has TT-77. If he has those, you can check/call, but I think he has you out-kicked. Check/fold is right, but I prolly check/call in real time.
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11-28-2013 , 04:56 PM
Typical spot, still making the conversion from on-line cash (played full time for three years) to live play.

1-2-2 4 to go game, end of a 7 hour session. Hero has decent image, has been playing his share of hands, done by far the most three betting/squeezing at the table and taken down several medium sized pots without showdown. Has shown down hands like 76o vs a short stack all in and a JQo open from EP that made the nut straight on the turn. Villain has been mostly TAG but has had some spazzy moments like getting 100bb in with 7s2s on 5442dd vs AdJd that got there on the river. He then won several decent pots in a row with strongish hands and currently has Hero well covered. He's been straddling most of his UTG hands but has been folding most of them while complaining that it never works for him.

Half an orbit earlier Villain raises a limper to 18, Hero calls in CO with AQ, Limper folds. Flop comes Q68r, Villain bets 25, Hero calls. Turn 2 bringing flush draw, check, check. River 8 no flush, Villain check calls 55, tables KQo and hero's hand is good.

UTG Villain (700)
UTG +1 Hero (320)

Pre-Flop - Villain straddles, Hero makes it 18 with AdKd, folds to Villain who looks at his cards and quickly makes it 45. Hero Calls. Standard?

Flop Ks8d7h - Villain pretty quickly makes it 50. I assume calling is also standard here.

Turn 8h - Villain thinks for a few seconds, slides out a full stack and announces '100'. Hero has 225ish left and his hand seems pretty face up at this point.

Thoughts?
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11-28-2013 , 05:48 PM
DE,

Opening 4.5x in a straddled pot seems too big to me by default, but you may have a better feel for what sizing works in that game. Pre's a call without any kind of history from V playing back at your raises or 3bets. Flop's definitely a call.

Given the way the KQ/AQ hand played out, I think there's a decent chance he checks this turn occasionally with some of the other AK combos. I'm pretty much expecting a guy on a heater to never be 3betting or barreling airball type hands OOP here against an EP raise. If you stove a range of like AA/KK/AKs/AhQh against our hand, it'd still say you have enough equity to call this bet. But that ignores RIO considerations where we beat one or maybe two turned bdfd combos, and the vast majority our equity comes from chopping, which really hurts us with another 225 behind.

I think folding the turn is optimal, but calling isn't awful by any means.
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11-28-2013 , 06:00 PM
So if we call turn we are calling all rivers obviously, but are we checking behind if checked to?
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11-28-2013 , 06:29 PM
Not with the turn hero tendencies demonstrated in the 72s hand.
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11-29-2013 , 12:55 AM
OK thanks for the feedback. As played I shipped the turn which was was my pretty clearly my worst option. Villain cried for a little bit and called with AA which held.

Looking back I think as weak as it is that folding pre-flop or even clicking it back and folding to a 5 bet (something I almost never did online) might be right considering the fact that his shenanigans hadn't come pre-flop and my reverse implied odds are horrible against what is almost surely a typically tight 3 betting range vs a solid UTG raiser. Still adjusting to live play where stealing pots and avoiding big showdowns without the goods seems to be the right strategy.
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11-29-2013 , 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
7way limped pot, Hero is in BB with Q5ss.

Flop is Q43ss cuz god likes me. I bet $25 into ~$25 cuz I feel I has a good hand. Only Villain in EP calls.

Villain is 50ish middle eastern guy I've never played with. Earlier he was commenting on how horrible a maniac was playing (maniac was betting blind to the turn/river and I eventually stacked him twice), and Villain is saying how "this is not poker, this is horrible, this is bingo". He has played pretty ABC but he still seems fairly noobish / bad. He likes to bet $10 on flop and turn with weakish hands; he has folded fairly easy to aggression with these weak bets. He once was able to fold a straight on a paired / 3-to-a-flush river vs 2 players giving action.

Turn 6r. I now have TPnK with a flush draw and an OESD. Pot is $75 and Villain has $150 left.

What should be our plan at this point?

I ended up betting $25. Obviously this is a lol bet, but my reasoning is that it's possible my hand is best and I simply want to take down the pot now as cheaply as possible (it's possible Villain has something like 99). If my hand ain't best, I should still be getting awesome odds to chase all my draws, even if Villain raises me (and if he does raise me, my guess is that it will be a lol size giving me good odds).

Villain calls. Q on the river so now I have what is known as "trips". Pot is $125 and Villain has $125 left.

Now what?

Spoiler:

I shove, Villain beats me into the pot with Q6 fullhouse. At the time, I was thinking that if I check Villain can then check behind hands that he might pay off (JJ- perhaps, for TWO PEAR!). And if he bets then I feel I'm probably committed. But maybe I'm not committed against this guy and could fold to a bet?

I felt I screwed up this hand, although I must admit I'm not exactly sure where. Did the turn bet create too large a pot for a mediocre hand (although, being totally results oriented, I'm sure Villain would have ended up betting more had I checked).


GcluelessNLnoobG
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
But if we check the river, doesn't he normally just check back all the mediocre hands that could *perhaps* payoff a bet, and obviously just bet the hands that crush us? I always think in this spot that if we check then a bet usually just ends up going in on the river when we're behind.

I think I'm more concerned with whether I should be in this spot on the river to begin with (although at the same time I think flop is obvious and I don't think I *hate* turn?).

GcluelessNLnoobG
I think your flop bet is too big, but I know your style, so, OK. I'd probably check this flop, but I can see leading out. Your OOP. You bet $25 into $25. Someone called. I'd snap raise my eyebrows when I get called here. Turn you pick up more equity but, unfortunately, he binked two pair.

River is ... ugh. What do you beat? Or are you turning trips into a bluff hoping he'll fold Q9 because you are a nit?
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12-01-2013 , 02:44 PM
Hero: bought in for $700, now up to about $1000. Playing plain old boring TAG, except I'll open raise the button about half the time if checked around to me. Cbet % is about 50 or so.

Villain: $300. Came in at about 8am reeking of alcohol. 28ish white guy, well dressed. Appears to be playing any two cards. He literally called a raise with 42o and won with two pair. I haven't seen him raise, he just calls a lot.

Hand:

Hero UTG with KK bets 20.
Villain in UTG +1 calls.
Two other callers.

Flop: T33r

Hero: $60
Villain raises to $120

Folds back around to hero.

Question: am I the biggest nit who ever lived?
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12-01-2013 , 02:46 PM
Actually I did see him raise flop once, after he limped AA pre
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12-01-2013 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbqDave
Hero: bought in for $700, now up to about $1000. Playing plain old boring TAG, except I'll open raise the button about half the time if checked around to me. Cbet % is about 50 or so.

Villain: $300. Came in at about 8am reeking of alcohol. 28ish white guy, well dressed. Appears to be playing any two cards. He literally called a raise with 42o and won with two pair. I haven't seen him raise, he just calls a lot.

Hand:

Hero UTG with KK bets 20.
Villain in UTG +1 calls.
Two other callers.

Flop: T33r

Hero: $60
Villain raises to $120

Folds back around to hero.

Question: am I the biggest nit who ever lived?
Fold, he's min raising with a bunch of players behind, if this is not a 3, I don't know what is

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12-01-2013 , 04:32 PM
It's a 3 a lot, but I've also seen it be a ten.
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12-01-2013 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
Fold, he's min raising with a bunch of players behind, if this is not a 3, I don't know what is

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This is way too exploitable, please flat the flop & play some poker
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12-01-2013 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
This is way too exploitable, please flat the flop & play some poker
This, although I wouldn't be afraid of being exploited in the sense of being bluff raised, more so spazzed by a ten. Which I guess is like him unknowingly exploiting us lol.

Semantics
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12-01-2013 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
This is way too exploitable, please flat the flop & play some poker
He's not exploiting us multi way, heads up I'm all for playing poker. Just 4way flops r, villains are usually so transparent...

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12-01-2013 , 06:19 PM
Yeah. Thing is
- this is his "fish nuts" line (ie whatever he perceives is the nuts)
- he is in for a third of his stack

So there's no playing poker, it's shove if we think we are ahead if his range, or fold if we aren't.

But yeah I figure QQ is in his range and maybe Tx. Not sure Tx is "fish nuts." Who knows. Later on I saw him spaz out with tp.

I don't worry about getting exploited by drunk fish.

Nevertheless I probably am the pruniest old nit ever, regardless.
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12-01-2013 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
He's not exploiting us multi way, heads up I'm all for playing poker. Just 4way flops r, villains are usually so transparent...

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Hes reeking of alcohol and called with 42o, also slowplays pairs above the board preflop from past history. While this makes more 3x in his range than normal this guy clearly is not thinking about four others in the pot. I've read ur advice, you fold the best hand a bit too often

Range: jj qq Aa tx 3x. We are doing well vs this range even if you cut out a few of the Tx that flat flop
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12-01-2013 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
This, although I wouldn't be afraid of being exploited in the sense of being bluff raised, more so spazzed by a ten. Which I guess is like him unknowingly exploiting us lol.

Semantics
this. He slowplays big pairs pre so jj qq is the nuts to him in addition to Tx
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12-01-2013 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
this. He slowplays big pairs pre so jj qq is the nuts to him in addition to Tx
Possible, I just give mad credit in multiway pots

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12-01-2013 , 06:45 PM
In regards to preflop hand selection in early position:
What is the most profitable line for each hand when just sitting down with no reads?

1. A4 suited
2. KJo
3. low PP 2s-6s
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