I like this flop debate. Keep arguing, please.

The reason I checked, and I thought it was close, was that I was oop and people love to peel. So many players like to peel and then do not want to call a $35 bet on turn. Others like to lay low and raise turn. So many players in pot that I wasn't sure what turn line-up would look like when pot is called in two spots and is $60. This is why I post...

The biggest checking drawback, imo, is when you wake up to no action when the flush arrives.

How do you guys play this hand?
When we knock w/ J3 in a 5 way pot and it comes out J62. Do you like a bet?

Plan is to d barrel people who can fold and barrel Q,k,a turns. If called in two spots I'm done ott im done betting unimproved. You need to realize people are limping with tons of crap that can't stand 2bets. Tpnk at my games usually folds by the turn bc of my image on a normal day. This is another reason I'm able to b/f alot.

Gg is a good player, a bit passive for my liking but profitable for sure. I think part of the difference is in my games people can typically fold, in his games the players are super soft.

As far as j3o hand, easy c fold

Gg I think by now you realize I'm not spewy, and I agree that winnin poker is boring poker (heck, I have a very tight flatting range preflop). As explained, by betting a nut draw there are many ways to win with the right image vs players that limp such wide ranges

G what in your opinion is better, betting flop or c raising? Just curious as to what your second default line would be

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I am not expecting to take it down with my flop bet but I am going to thin the field significantly to one or two opponents most of the time, which makes things easier. Whether I continue on the turn depends on who calls on the flop and what comes on the turn. I am betting an Ace, betting a spade, and maybe betting a 3, 4 or 6, depending on how much fold equity I think I have against the specific set of Vs in the hand.

I am limiting my RIO risk by pot controlling when the Ace comes. I am betting probably about 1/3 pot and folding to a strong raise (one that prices me out of my flush draw). I am not worried about an opponent reading my weak turn bet as weakness and bluff-raising me. Nine times out of ten the turn raise is a big hand and the one time out of ten I get outplayed, good for him/her. You earned my $27.

I am c/f the flop and if it checks around, I may take a stab at a harmless turn about half the time. Have to balance your limp pre/check flop/$5 bet on the turn range, you know.

I don't understand why we would potentially want to thin the field to us and the guy who currently has us as a 2:1 dog.

I'm also not sold on any plan that has us potentially folding a hand on the turn that can make the nuts.

FWIW, I don't think donking is horrible. I just don't think it's best.

GmrpassiveG

Count me in the check/fold camp, with the exception perhaps being if it's checked to an aggro in LP who takes a stab at it.

I don't think we are a 2:1 dog most of the time, as the A is probably worth 1.5 outs (giving us 10.5 outs), there are times where A high is actually leading (vs. the K high fd or the floater with two overcards, etc.), and we have fold equity by taking the lead. In fact, I think of this situation as one where I am ahead, even if someone out there has paired the board. And if a second drooler comes along, then even the flush draw all by itself is giving us the right odds. (Note: I am betting 1/2 to 2/3 pot on the flop.)

As for folding the turn, it is only when I am priced out by a raise. IME, it very rarely happens. Even when we are crushed, most Vs think that they are trapping with their two pair+ while I have set the price sufficiently low for me to see the last card.

I also don't think c/c is awful (and c/r even has some merit - you just can't play this hand wrong, can you?) but I just think that the benefits of disguising your draw and almost always being able to set your price for drawing makes taking the lead (it isn't donking if nobody raised) the higher EV play.

Hand I prob butchered to show you how low the standards are for mods in this forum:

1/3 @ Aria this morning.

2 limpers, I raise to $12 on the button with AQ

Blinds fold, limpers (UTG & MP1) both call (Pot $40).

Flop: 983

Check, check, check

Turn: 9

Check, check, I bet $15, call, fold (Pot $70).

River: 5

UTG bets $45 fairly quickly, and is shaking like crazy.

I should...?

& I butchered this hand in how many other ways?

No reads on villain? I'm going to assume effective stacks are 100bb. I raise to 18 pre. I cbet the flop as well. Once you check the flop and bet the turn wtf are you repping? No one is ever folding a pair in that spot? The river is a super easy fold as played.

Prob 80bb eff. He had bought in for $200, chipped up a bit. I had him covered easy enough. V had been at table bout 15 mins. Mid 20s. Only hand of note he played since sitting he had quad 6s & also shook like crazy when he bet the river.

Table had been weak passive. I was 1 of only 2 people who seemed to be raising/cbetting etc. Bet smaller so I could maybe actually play a pot in position. Mostly my $11 raises were getting 1 caller max.

& I'm not repping anything with that line, except I thought I had the best hand after it checked around twice. My lack of repping anything is the only thing that would lead me to consider calling.

I would be stunned if he was slow-playing for 2 streets, then leading river. Am pretty sure he would have just raised turn & his demeanor didn't seem right for it.

As such, his most likely holdings are 67, 55, T7, JT, low pair, or some random overs/gutshot.

I also think a low pair is unlikely because I'm not repping anything, so why would he bluff with a hand with showdown value rather than bluff catch?

It's probably 55 or 67 95% of the time. If you bet the turn though, why not bet the flop? It just doesn't make sense.

Not c-betting the flop is the part of the hand I definitely hate the most. I didn't really have any good logic for it, other than it just doesn't really look like a flop I would have hit, so it's not really telling a very convincing story anyway.

Bet the turn because I think any small pp or 8 is betting the turn after the 9 comes off, so prob time to end the hand & not give another free card. I don't think there's a real problem with my turn bet, but I could be convinced otherwise.

I like bluffing smaller than value betting. However I think 15 into 40 in a 3 handed pot is way too small. Gotta go at least 25. Also just go ahead and bet the flop; you have the best hand sometimes anyway. I think river is an easy fold, especially if he'd shaken the last time he had a monster.

Bah, I made a play that seemed really stupid as I made it last night, and still seems stupid right now. My question: Is it stupid? I hate spewing:

$1-$2 live. Table has a lot of limp-calling, and players seem to have problems folding top pair in big pots.

3 guys--all with stacks around 100 Big Blinds--limp in. I complete the Small Blind with pocket 4s.

The Big Blind is short-stacked (he has a stack of $60). He raises to $12. Everyone else calls.

...I MUST fold here, right?

JMurder: Pot is laying less than 3:1. It's hard to imaging that shaky is bluffing (with a hand worse than yours) more than 1/4.

to call $10 in a $50 pot closing the action seems fine.

I think an argument can be made either way. You obviously can't call for implied odds against the original raiser because of his short stack. So we look to the limp/callers. Here are the pros/cons of calling and trying to stack one of those guys:

PRO: they have 100BB
CON: their limp/calling range is wide and weak, meaning that it's hard for them to hit anything that they might get their stack in with.
PRO: you say they have trouble folding top pair.

In all, if you feel all three of these guys fit the above, then I think calling is ok.

Easy stack off with what might be the 3rd best hand?
I don't have stove in front of me, and I assume it would tell me one way or a other.

Hero: $215 Been playing tight for the last hour, but loose for the 2 before that if anyone is paying attention.
V1: $300 first hand at the table.
V2: $750 hes been playing for about an hour. He got the majority of his money in a limped pot with A3cc vs KJcc on a 3 club board, they got $300 stacks in by the river.

Pre flop: 1 limper, hero raises to 13$ from the CO with KK
V2 calls on the btn
BB calls
V1 calls
Flop: ($48) KJ9
BB checks
V1 leads for 40
Hero flats
V2 jams
V1 jams
Hero?

I've got to assume one of them has nuts. And one of them likely has a flush draw? Maybe bottom or middle set? Maybe Q10ss? Is this an easy stack off? It's hard to tell what my odds are with out stove in front of me.

Gross spot. But it looks like you are about 35% against a fd and a made straight so yes, call. And there is always the chance you are up against worse, like two flush draws or AK and J9.

I would have raised the donk, but whatever.

Pretty easy stack off, no? We're getting ~3:1. Even if we are behind (we're not necessarily behind), if all our outs are clean we're going to boat/quad up about 1/3rd of the time (i.e. only need ~2:1 and we're already getting ~3:1). Some of our outs could possibly be being sucked up, but I don't think enough of them to sway the decision.

GcluelessNLnoobG

easy stack off. Lower sets, two pair, flush draws all possible. I would say you have the best hand at least a third of the time here, without needing to improve.

Even if they expose QT, you have 35% equity, so get it in and print money.

Is this spew or can I get calls from hands with worse equity enough to make this profitable?


Pre flop:

Hero raises from the HJ with A9hh (~$200 effective) to 14$
BTN calls

Flop: ($28) J96
Hero bets $18
BTN raises to 36$
Hero jams for 175$

In hind sight, I think the jam is a little big, and maybe raise to 100$ is better, and call it off obv if he jams. But to be honest, I thought he has like $150 in his stack, not $210 so I thought I was shoving for $120 more.

Thoughts?

Obv I've got almost 45% equity against any two pair hand. (A bit more if it's J6 somehow.) But do I fold out everything I beat and only get calls by better? Do I get calls from straight draws with this play?
I'm drawing a bit thin vs a flopped set, but based on the action so far, I'd say 66 is the only hand that makes sense if he flopped a set.

I don't mind it. I think all worse hands fold but I don't think minraises on the flop are really that weak all that often. I think what you do by jamming is make a variety of better hands fold. And if he's got a monster you've got equity. The jam's kinda big but making it smaller probably isn't changing much.

A read in the second hand would be good, but I think the jam is ok. A lot of better hands will fold there.

What size turn raise will make you fold this hand?

1-3 hero raises one ep limp to $16. Gets called by BB and limper.

BB has been pretty ABC solid on showdown hands, but ready to spew as witnessed by seeing him call a 3 bet of the tightest player at table with AQ then $150 more pf shove against obv KK or AA

EP is trying to play solid values when the money goes in, but has a wide wide range PF.

Hero has AQ

Flop, ~$44 Q64

Hero bets $30, call call

Turn, ~$104 Q64 2

Check, hero bets $75, BB raises $XXX, EP tank folds

The pot is now at ~$250 plus the raise. What is the most we can call here? Assume it is an all in raise with no implied odds.