You're right. I'm sorry. V2 checked to me before I bet.

1/3NL -Against a huge fish whom I've value towned twice, who has seen me raise pre with 74s, I get AQs in the hj. He l/rr my $20 pf raise from utg+1 to $60. He has about $140 behind.

Does anyone here get it in or wait for more opportunities to prison rape him?

AQ is crushed by a fish's l/rr range IMO. I fold.

1-2nl.

I have TT ($350)

Villain has me covered.

I have played with villain for about 2 hrs and he has a pretty obvious sizing tell preflop. When he raises small he has a more speculative holding like 22-88, small suited broadways, and probably other suited connected stuff. He seems to play solid postflop. Haven't seen him do anything bad/weird.

Villain open raises 4 off the BTN to $7.

I 3bet to $21 from 3 off the BTN, everyone else folds and villain calls.

Flop ($40 pot after rake): J83r

Villain checks, I bet $30. He calls.

Turn ($100 pot): another Jack hits. J83J

Villain checks, I check.

River ($100 pot): Villain bets $70.

Call or fold?

How does V typically respond to cbets? Is he capable of peeling with 2nd pair?

It's possible he could be turning a lot of worse hands into a bluff after your check OTT. T9s, 99-44, 8X, etc. However, I can't come up with a solid answer without better reads on the guy. In addition, it would be nice to know what your perceived image is.

3.5 bbs pf seems like a speculative hand pf that wants some action. Hands that would call the cb that fit this profile might be A8s, JT, 9T, 22-99. Do you think he'd make such a small pf raise with hands like KJ? Has he demonstrated a tendency to bluff?

More description would be useful. As written, it is hard not to call since you showed weakness on turn. I think he has 9T or smaller pps often enough. If you had mentioned that you thought he was a good player, I would more likely lay down as this is a nice value size.

I think you have to call here. The check on the turn puts you in a bluff catching position and now you have to hope that it is a bluff you are catching. Plus, the three bet/c-bet/check line looks a whole lot like AK so V may even think he is value betting an 8 or small pocket pair.

You only have to be right about 41% of the time to be +EV. I think that you are ahead at least 41.5% of the time here.

I prefer a bet/bet/check line when the top card pairs. Most players aren't going to checkraise without a jack, and we'll get to check most rivers back (folding if he bombs river out of position).

When you check turn, he gets the green light to turn everything into a bluff. 9T, 66, 89, everything.

IDK. This type of situation is relatively rare live. 3bets don't happen very much live. This hand is the first sample I have of villain facing this particular situation. Personally, I would just apply some kind of background assumption here, like: when typical live players call that flop (with villain's range) they will have unimproved pocket pairs, Jx, flopped sets, and 8x and T9s.

Bold was my problem, I just don't have enough of a read, but on the river I REALLY REALLY wanna fold. Let's go back to the flop. That flop is pretty damn dry. T9s is the only draw and I have TT. When villain calls there he's gonna have Jx, pocket pairs and 8x (A8s in his range) and slowplayed sets. The turn is a Jx, so now I only beat unimproved pockets and a few 8x combos).

So the question on the river becomes: Is this guy the type of player to turn a lower pair into a bluff cuz that's essentially what he's doing here. This by the way is a very rare play live imo (I only have 150ish hours of experience). In my experience, villains don't turn marginal showdown hands into bluffs very often. I mean they might make a stupid small bet like $30-$40 in this spot with such a hand, not realizing they are value pwning themselves, but players don't typically make a decent sized value bet on the river with these type of hands.

So his river sizing really surprised me. I really felt that he had it here, because how often do we see live players make that type of bet with a hand we beat after that action and that dry flop (if there was a flush draw on the flop, I think calling a blank river is pretty trivial).

Conclusion: I don't think live players turn marginal showdown hands into bluffs often enough to make calling the river in this spot profitable.

Counterargument: I don't know this guy that well, he may not be as solid postflop as I think, I checked the turn which may induce a bluff or induce a dumb bet. Live players do dumb things all the time.

IDK.

I suspect yes on the KJ question, and I haven't seen him bluff yet. He's been mostly in multiway pots where he's had to play honest.

You're right about that river being a nice value size. If this guy bets $40 on the river, I think we're back to a trivially easy call. I wish I had a better description, but what I mentioned is all I got.

This was my thinking on the turn. It's just that river bet-sizing threw me off. I was expecting a smaller bet by villain on the river or a check.

I'm not sure, but I did call.

I actually strongly disagree with you in this spot but it is based on an assumption that villain is solid enough postflop to let an unimproved pair go IF I barrel the turn. IF that assumption is true, then I think checking the turn is expert, since betting will just fold all worse, and get owned by all better, and by keeping worse hands around we can possibly get more value from that range on the river either by inducing a bluff or betting a small amount if checked to.

Anyways, as mentioned before. Everything was going as planned until that peculiarly large valuey river bet. I tanked and called. Villain had 88 for a full house.

$1-$3
6 handed
$350 effective stacks

Hero (BB): Tight to nitty image
V1 (UTG): Calling station, very loose preflop, somewhat unaware of relative hand strength postflop, makes very transparent bluffs, will bet if checked to postflop almost 100%.
V2 (CO): Loose/passive preflop, limps with almost any two in late position, fit or fold yet semi-aggro postflop.

V1 straddles to 6 as he has been all night/morning. He doesn't use his option without a top ~10% hand.
CO calls
Hero (BB) picks up A9o.

Raise? Call? Fold?

I open raise there a lot.

I'm starting to think that 2 hours is long enough for us to get a lot of obvious reads. If he hasn't been seen bluffing yet, my guess is that he is way more than a 2.5:1 dog to be bluffing here. This might be an interesting hand to put in DGI's laydown thread. forumserver.twoplustwo.com/170/live-low-stakes-nl/real-llsnl-pt2-big-hand-but-easy-laydowns-1298668/

I play bad; let's talk about it

Background: about ten years ago I used to be a winning low to mid stakes limit player in Seattle. Moved to Portland for school where I played in local NL games, did pretty well, and knew what I was doing. Poker bankroll went towards my wedding, and ever since my poker playing/bankroll has been limited to a buy in at 1/2 here and there, which I would either lose or end up spending on something non-poker-related. Found that my play was SEVERELY impacted, negatively, by playing on a limited bankroll, and that came into my decision making process WAY too much. Went on a streak of playing and winning and have built up a modest bankroll. I'd like to keep it going, and would like to move away from bad habits, so I'm venturing again into the strat sections of 2+2. Worst part about playing short is I KNEW when I was making dumb moves, but would never act as I knew (thought) was appropriate.

Anyway, here's a hand I played last night pretty horribly. Local game I've only played in twice. Not super tight, not super loose. Would call a wide range of pre-flop raises, but pretty "fit or fold" post-flop. Only an hour in, but I had taken down my share of pots c-betting. I'm specifically working on closing the gap between my VPIP and aggression stat, and had been raising quite a bit. Before this hand I had just lost a good sized pot when opponent hit his four card straight on the river to beat my set. Still had a little under 200 in front of me, Villian has me covered. Know very little about Villian but doesn't seem outrageously donkish, and has shown down a couple of winners where he was aggressor. Hand:

Villian UTG+1. Hero SB.

- Five callers before it gets to Hero in SB w/ KK. I complete.
- This was a decision without thinking. I usually look at my cards in advance but hadn't this time for whatever reason, and rather than think it through just completed. In hindsight I think I should raise this to 15-20. I know from the limited time I've been at the table that a raise to 10-15 will most likely have everyone calling, which I don't really want in this spot.

Flop: QXX (Pot = $14)
- Hero checks. Villain bets $15. One player calls. Hero calls.
Really just have no idea what is the better play. Lead out? Check raise? With the number of players my guess is lead out, but I know I put myself in a bad position by playing crappy before the flop.

Turn: Q. (Pot = $59)
- Hero checks. Villain bets $40. Other player in folds. Hero calls.
??? Of course I'm kicking myself.

River: Blank. (Pot = $139)
- Hero checks. Villain checks.
Obviously when he checks I know I'm good, and in hindsight probably made more out of the hand by playing bad. That being said, think I played it pretty bad by really not having a plan and just praying. Since I didn't bet I didn't have to think about what I call on the river, but I'm pretty sure I have to fold there to any sizable bet.

Thoughts?

Raise pre and just value bet the flop. It would also be nice to know if the flop XX is suited/connected/paired in any way.

Turn is just a brutal card. It's either a bet/fold with the plan to check river, or a check/evaluate.

To be honest, it is pretty hard to give you much advice after limping KK from the SB. The entire dynamic of the hand is so fundamentally askew after this that advising you how to play the rest of the hand is pretty much not worth the time because YOU WILL NEVER BE IN THIS POSITION AGAIN. Right?

As for preflop, if you expect that the whole table is going to call $10-15, make it $20-$25. And if they all call that, make it $30 the next time. The point is to find the place where your raises narrow the field. With KK OOP, you want to be heads up or at most three-way. Limping is no solution, as you are still now playing KK seven ways.

P.S. I am seriously considering folding the turn here. Why would you think he does not have a Queen? (I know, I promised not to discuss the hand as played.)

P.P.S. Is there still some scared money in your play? I get the sense that one reason you limped was knowing that if you raised and got called six ways, then you were probably going to be committed to playing for stacks.

Ha, that was pretty much my thinking while I was playing the hand. Just horrendous.

This is my post-hand analysis as well (actually, my "during hand" analysis). Again, the worst part about my play (for me) is that I generally know what I should be doing and what the goal is. I just don't execute.

Tilt-call.


That's definitely something I'm still dealing with. While I say my bankroll is modest, I'm still under rolled for 1/2 and while I could take a hit of a few buy ins that would put me in a spot where I know I'd be psychologically freaked out half the time I'm in the pot.

I used to frequent the low and mid limit games in Shoreline and Tulalip. Were you from up there or more lils and muck?

I'm sure you know this, but looking at your cards is still a good way to begin a hand

I started out playing 3/6 and 4/8 at Goldie's, then moved to playing the 8/16 and occasionally 10/20 at Lils. Played at Parker's, but infrequently. I just really liked the staff and regulars at Goldie's (which doesn't have a poker room anymore ), and the action of the 4/8 kill.

This brings up a theory question I've been thinking about for awhile, if you end up in a situation with AA/KK and 3+ opponents that you know are all set mining, and you end up with an overpair and an SPR < 2, do you still just auto-commit? Seems like auto-suicide happens so often.

One of the lines I've taken frequently lately that I think is profitable but not one I like:

Hero calls raise with 99 OOP, say in the SB.

Flop is 862 rainbow. Hero checks rather than leading out. Villain (not original raiser) bets, OR folds; hero calls. Turn is a 4. Same action. River 4. Same action. Villain has 8x.

Hero raises in LP with 77 ... One caller from UTG. Flop is 442. Villain leads. Turn 6. Villain leads. River 4. Villain leads.

Hero - electing to call down here to keep people bluffing/betting worse and running the risk of a danger card coming.

IDK. I've used this a few times in the past few weeks.

Thoughts?

I don't hate it but c/c on the flop opens you up to not hitting great turn and river cards sometimes too lol. Hand becomes a lot trickier if overcard hits turn and villain bets again. That being said, 8x often shuts down on turn, but not always. You just kinda end up in annoying spots a lot.

Totally missed this post. Wouldn't be surprised if you're right. After all, how many live players are gonna bet 70% pot on the river like that with a lower pair? I bet that's a very rare play. A bluff bet of 70% pot is not so rare, but the problem is the flop was basically drawless. Only T9s missed which is only 2 combos since we have TT, and it's possible, actually probable, villain folds this preflop once 3bet.

Standard?

1-2nl

White guy in his 20s playing tag who in an earlier hand said something like "you just gonna 'click it back' like that?" when someone min-raised him, opens to $10 in the HJ. He has a $300 stack.

Tight passive old man coldcalls him in the CO. $300 stack.

I coldcall on the BTN with 86. I have a $250 stack.

Passive (never sqeezing) blinds fold out.

Flop ($33 - $3 rake = $30 pot) QJ3

PFR tag checks, old man checks, I bet $25. Both fold.

Standard? Or I got lucky?

Preflop is a fold for me usually, but recognizing that TAG will play more straightforward multiway and stabbing after 2 checks is good stuff, ofc.

I mean I'm just guessing here, but I bet for 3% of our stack, 86s is an autocall in this spot, but I called off 4% of my stack here, and I couldn't tell you if that's profitable or not. Now obv if we can sometimes take down the pot postlfop without the best hand (and crucially, we can accurately detect those spots where a bluff by us is likely to be successful), then I bet we could call off 5% and probably slightly more and turn a longterm profit in this spot. Just my guesstimate.

As far as the actual hand. I think this is a spot where a tag almost HAS to play straight foward imo. OOP to two known tight players on a QJ3 flush draw flop is probably not a good spot to cont bet with nothing or a weak hand like AK. Also, we don't have to worry about the tag slowplaying a monster in this spot either since this is such a terrible board to slowplay multiway with so many draws possible. So when the tag checks he's basically saying "I give up". When the old man checks, he's basically saying "I don't have Qx or better or a strong draw" since he's probably not gonna slowplay in this spot either for the same aforementioned reasons. And at this point in the game, I have a very clean image, which also may help. So it looks to me that this is basically a "free money bet with any two cards" situation. This may be a very boring/standard spot, but for me (with only 160ish hours of nl play ever) this is the FIRST time I have been in this spot.

I only posted this hand to make sure my read of the situation is correct, that this is indeed a "free money bet with any two cards" situation.