search for DGAF's thread, he's got a lot of great commentary why one should straddle.

No matter what we do here is going to be strong, but if we flat we at least give the option to the LAG to spaz with air; sure, he's unlikely to, but unlikely is better than nothing. If he has a T we're always getting the money in on the next street or two when he's drawing to 3 outs; if he has 66, we're getting stacked. I'd call and check the turn.

Trickiest part is what to do if the turn checks thru. We might (???) have to check the river cuz it looks like we're only going to get in more money by inducing this guy.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Can any of you guys calculate equity vs Villian ranges on the fly? Is this even possible or do you just have to plug into an equity calculator post session?

Divide your outs on the flop into 45 unseen cards (44 unseen cards on the turn).

In other words, let's say you've got a naked flush draw on an ace-high flop. You won't win unless you hit your flush. So on the flop you Divide 9 into 45, or 1/5 = 20% equity.

Calculating equity versus ranges is more complex and requires playing around with a simulator to figure out how your hand rates versus a reasonable range. Eventually you start to memorize scenarios and make decisions based on what you've memorized.

Right that's what I was thinking. I was in a spot the other day with a pair and a Flush draw post flop facing a shove. Only 7 hands fit into Vs range but I was just lost trying to think about this equity calculation

You can use the Monte Carlo method to estimate your equity against different classes of hands within villain's range, then weight the different classes.

For example, if you have AK on an ace-high flop and face a raise all-in from a range that consists of worse aces, flush draws, and sets, you can figure out your equity against AQ, the nut flush draw, and bottom set, then maybe you decide that he is 40% likely to have a set, 40% to have a draw, and 20% to be overly optimistic with a worse ace.

I find the "rule of 2 and 4" much easier to estimate our equity. More or less: estimate your outs and then multiply by 2 to estimate the chances of hitting on the next street, or multiple by 4 on the flop to estimate the chances of hitting by the river.

Ex. Nut flush draw on a non-paired flop, let's conservatively estimate 10 outs (9 flush outs plus 1 out for the Ace), so multiply that by 4 to give an estimate of equity of 40% if we see the river.

You can get a more accurate estimate by subtracting a percentage or two per out as the estimated outs start getting large (ex > 10) but whatever, it's just an estimate.

GmoreorlessG

This is how I would guesstimate this using the rule of 2 and 4.

I'd first guess at how many outs I had. I'm guessing we think all our flush outs are good here, so we start at 9. We also have a pair that could turn into trips or two pair, so potentially another 5 outs (minus any doubled up for the flush draw), but it depends on what we think about our opponent and how the hand was played. If this is a tight ABC opponent who raised preflop and stacks off easy with an overpair on a 9 high board, then good chance all of those extra outs are good. If opponent called a preflop raise and is ABC and is pushing on a drawy board against raiser and others, then more likely he's got a set and all our extra outs are no good.

For fun, let's just say 9 flush outs + 3 extra outs for 12, multiply by 4 for about ~48% equity (we're probably off by a few percent but we don't have to be incredibly accurate here, it's just an estimate), and you can see that calling the shove in most cases (unless it is a crazy big shove into a very small pot), then it's pretty much a snap call (as depending on shove/pot size, we're probably getting somewhere around 2:1 on a pot we're going to win almost half the time).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'd suggest throwing out a specific HH example. I typically know my immediate and implied pot odds, but try to play against players with simple face up ranges.

Ok - here was the hh that I got a bit lost with the other day. Was playing at a passive 1/2 table, lots of limp calling going on. Villian in the hand was a 50 year old white guy that was loose passive fitting into the table dynamic.

Effective stacks are $230. I'm down a buy in with a looser table image.

About 1.5 hours into the session 50 year old V from the HJ opens to $6. First time I'd seen him open and smaller than the average $10-$15 open for the table. Old man on the button calls, I call in the bb with 69dd.

$18 in the pot flop comes: AdQd6s.

I check. 50 year old V, cbets $15, old man calls, I bump it up to $45. 50 year old V thinks for 2-3 seconds then shoves. Old man folds.

Ok. So it's back on me and I am looking at calling off $180 to win ~$300. Getting 1.65:1 on a call.

So what's the best way to think about this? I was lost in the moment. Thinking about this now here's what I range Villian on after the post flop shove: AA,QQ, AK, AQ, KJdd, JTdd, maybe toss in AJ.

Let's go back to pre: what are we looking to flop typically if we're calling with 96?

Okay, we've flopped pretty big but not as big as we think as this crushes our opponents' pre-flop ranges. We're ahead of naked flush draws (but behind any ace or queen, so why are we check/raising? Readless, I'm not trying to semi-bluff two older $1/2 players on an ace-high board.

Now, assuming we're not up against a bigger FD (I don't think we are, unless it's specifically the KJ or KT), we have 15 clean outs versus an ace but only 9 versus two pair plus. Worst case scenario, we have only 9 outs and we need to fold as we've only got 20% equity and we need 38% equity to call given the pot odds.

I don't have the time to 'stove the villain's entire range, but my gut tells me this is a fold.

Getting 80:1 implied odds, I also call preflop. Obviously we have a fairly sucky hand and are OOP, but these odds are too good to pass up closing the action, imo.

I probably donk the flop. We should have decent equity with our flush draw + pair, and we have a decent chance at folding out hands as strong as JJ with a donk.

As played, I think once there is a bet and a call, and with these big stacks behind, I would actually just call the flop bet. The reward (the small pot) ain't really worth the risk (the relatively big stacks behind). Plus we're not really sure exactly how many outs we have (one of these guys could be on a bigger draw once they've both shown interest in the pot).

As played, although I'm not loving it, I think we have to call. Our worst case scenario is we're up against a set, but that's really the only one where we ain't getting the odds. Even against hands like two pair we're doing ok, and against overplayed single pairs or flush draws we're flippy with lottsa dead money.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Thanks for the above feedback. I agree with you deathcab on the OOP call with 96dd. If I was a better player I think this preflop call is ok but I'm not. My edge at 1/2 is generally just playing a stronger range than my opponents and getting value from this. I was titling at the time and that lead to the call. Usually this is a fold for me.

Gobble: thanks for the feedback. Makes me feel a little better about calling it off like I did even if it was Tilt enduced.

Results: guy had QQ. No help for me.

I thought this too. LAGs don't like to limp. Another in our discussion group said the same thing. Maybe her read wasn't great.


Does no one think the FLAT of the $19 on the flop, followed by the backraise make his hand super nutted?

A better player than me said our hand is face up and now he knows we probably aren't folding and that means he can beat A10.

I was convinced to change my mind that this is an auto stackoff.

Why can't hero have T9?

Not sure she raises 10 9 there OTF. She's pretty nitty.

LAGs definitely limp in live poker. So do TAGs.

If she only stacks off nutted and LAG is good enough to know that... Table change?

I was half joking. Some LAGs like to keep it small pre to eval and/or leave room for multiple barrels

Why can't the play of both players simply mean they have a hand they're willing to stack off with? Why wouldn't that include JT for either player?

Everyone making good points, pretty much the same points I did at the time.

Results?

If a player plays a short-stacked tag strategy and doubles up in a game full of LAGs he may want to continue playing because he enjoys range advantage but is uncomfortable playing high SPR post-flop. If he can get the whole table to straddle then he can go back to playing his usual strategy because the stakes have doubled.

If I'm at a table and everyone is deep and gambling I'll do it because 1) I don't want to kill the vibe and 2) my biggest edge is going to be PF hand selection by far which would prefer more shallow stacks.

Also, I may do it if there is a "table captain" who is deep but weak post-flop. He's gonna be putting too much in pre then folding post too often.

Not sure I would do it ever without a quorum in agreement.

I need to learn how to flat sometimes:

MP raises to $15 in a $1/$3 game. He just sat down after moving over from $1/$2. Eff. stacks were about $250ish.

I call OTB. Two others call. I have 66.

Flop 652. Checks to OR, who bets $15 (LOL). I make it $40. Folds back to him and he calls.

Turn 7. He checks. I bet $75. He folds QQ face up.

Obviously, trying to get money in here as quickly as possible, barring scary cards coming and him realizing QQ is no good (K or A, 4 to a straight, etc.).

If I flat flop, he probably bets another ridiculously small amount.

Bleh. Hate actually flopping a set and not making bank.

nice hand. We play with the hopes they can't fold an overpair, and tip our cap when they can.

Any good general strat threads or advice on playing straddled pots from the blinds?
Game is 1/2 NL, $1-300 buy in, 9 handed tables.
In general there are 2-3 stacks $125 and below, 2-3 stacks $125 - 200, and 2-3 stacks $200+, most people don't top off, they wait till they bust. Maybe 10% of player pool buys in for full $300. These guys like to straddle, I would say 1 straddle an orbit on average, 2 on fri/sat nights.
Casino allows straddle from any position except the blinds, but most of the time it is the button who straddles.
The spot I find tricky here is the blinds. I assume we should be very tight in the blinds when B straddles as SB acts first.

What's our opening range from SB/BB? Do we have a limping range?