5/10/25 8 handed hero stack 3300

I don't think people at this table realize how tight i'm calling from the small blind in this spot, but I am basically only flatting pairs for set-mine value and tossing or re-raising any draw i choose to play. This is an active table with loose players except that the BB is down to 600

I said that to myself when i saw the action pre flop unfold in front of me, don't play draws here

UTG: (covers) I don't want to say anything bad about him but a lot of young people try and become "poker pro's" and those guys tend to flip over every year, they generally don't last, IMO he's making his money right now pre-flop with very aggressive 3 and 4 bets pre, but even thought i've played with him a lot, i rarely see what he has because he just doesn't show down that often and seems to lose at river a lot
UTG2: LAG 20 something pro who moved up from 2/5 recently, seems pretty good but i've seen him make very bad river calls
MP1 (covers): middle aged rec rich guy, tends to over-bet, likes to limp, pretty much tells you exactly what he has with his sizing, you know the type
BTN (covers): Loose rich looking arab guy, has not missed a limp behind or call on his button

Both blind and straddle are on short stack with the BB having about 600, straddle has like 800

UTG raises to 75, all 3 call, hero has KdKc flats, hoping one of the blinds will move in but to no avail, they both fold

QdTd6h

OK cool, blocking straight and flush draws, Qx has to bet, lets go for the c/r

checks to MP1 who makes it 350, folds to hero 900, villain tank calls

Qc

check/check

Qh

check/ v bets 800

The flat was pretty terrible tbh...raise pre, I'm willing to gii vs these guys.

As played I don't like the flop raise, it's just over playing it at that point. I would call since he probably has some missed FD's in his range based on his desc.

Pre is a must raise. I really dislike the flat, even though I understand why you did it.

So, MP1 tells you what he has by sizing -- what is he telling you on the flop? River? Looks a lot like a Q, but could easily be a draw, maybe w/ a T. Possibly JJ or similar, but I doubt it. The way the hand was played, I think you have to call river.

That’s a terrible reasoning to flat, if bb or straddle is gonna ship any 2 then yes flat but other than that this is a mandatory 3bet.

River cant see what else we can do but call, ya sizing is small but if he’s any good he would use the same sizing with a Q and folding at this sizing is not an option obviously.

not clear on what raise size to use PF, feel like UTG being a a sort of pro would be uber tight opening from UTG and flats most of the time and then it's a cascade of calls, or i raise it large and get no customers, feel like there is absolutely no efficient sizing to use here but i'l leave that as a question to you guys

what sizing pre? maybe like 400?

just remember that it's deep and loose and if UTG calls (and he's probably strong here 3xing from first position) it could be a nightmare to play a monster pot OOP

3x over a straddle first to act is basically a pot sweetener (esp in that game).

Yeah, once someone raises and a few people call, standard 3bet sizes go out the window pretty much otherwise it gets to be over kill some times so just fly by the seat of your pants in these situations. 400 is fine.

Why would you not want to play a monster pot when you have KK in a loose game?

Are you small blind? (Just realized how confusing positions are because you mention "blinds" are short, but it seems as if you act after BTN.)

I'm still raising, and $300 - $350 seems pretty good. $400 is OK, but a bit big. If you are OOP, it makes more sense.

There are some inconsistencies in your UTG read. Is he frequently aggressively 3! and 4! pre or is his range Uber strong raising from EP?

If your plan worked and one of the blinds shoved, how are you reacting to an UTG cold call/4 bet as his range is “Uber strong”?

We are not THAT deep at 5/10/25 (130bb).

If you are never laying down KK preflop it’s best to pile money in pre and reduce post flop SPR to negate your positional disadvantage. Make it 325 so you can reopen the action if BB shoves and UTG cold calls.

Lastly, “getting no customers” = winning 12bb with no risk when you have the worst position. It’s nice to get action with KK but this is not a terrible outcome.

Oop you need to make this 4x + 1x per caller so in this case i’d make it 500-600

No need to have formulaic 3 bet sizes here. It does not need to be that large. You leverage the stacks of everyone but UTG with any 3-bet and the callers are gonna mostly fold to an UTG open / SB 3-bet.

We're only 130 straddles deep, there's no need to go that big. Especially not if we do it because we have a fixed 3bet size.

What happens if we 3bet hinges on a couple factors that aren't clear from OP. For example stack sizes of everyone who covers. Once UTG (who covers) calls the 3bet, the 3 callers behind him (who all cover) have to consider their respective stack sizes. Stack sizes also matter if UTG 4bets which he likes to do according to OP. MP1/BTN might be way more inclined to call a 4bet by UTG if all of them are >10k deep compared to if they have like 3500.

I misread. We leverage stacks of BB and straddle with any 3-bet.

I like a 3bet to the maximum that we can still be allowed to 5 bet jam if BB or straddle go all in.

Is that 300?

As played we're underepped and so I sigh call.

Raising to 600 pre from 75 is turning your hand face up it's gonna look like aces or kings folding everyone out.

If they both have exactly $600 it would be to $337. That's a raise of $262 and leaves them with a possible raise of $263 to $600.

If bets have to be in increments of 5's, it would be to $335.

So lets say this was 1/2 250$ eff utg raises to 6$ , 3 callers, we have KK sb you guys are saying proper sizing here would be 25-30$?

Go to 550 pre unless you know for sure the blinds will push.

I like the flop xraise AP

Turn x or small bet seems fine

River I am not sure why u check, I would for sure value bet with an appropriate size depending on how sticky he is. I would likely jam for pot.
After checking and he bets 800 into 2200, jamming seems very obvious against everyone but the trickiest opponent. He checks turn and blocks river, extremely rare he has quads

I like 575 pre, lol at flatting

I can’t get over the PF flat, it is an egregious error of biblical proportions.

AP I snap the river. I discount Qx from his range somewhat because the turn is still really draw heavy so I doubt he wants to give a free card when you could have a combo draw with high equity. Certainly he could have it but you’re getting decent odds and your hand has been strangely played so he probably is discounting overpairs from your range.

This! Raise to 500+ pre, take down 300 relatively risk free. If UTG calls and others fold, pot will be ~1225. Bet 400-450 on flop, bomb most turns. This turn, probably check-call & call down on this river.

As played, you are sooooooo underrepped, and essentially have the second nuts (no one should have AA here; but then again, as played no one should have KK here either). Call the river.

Also, I'm interested in OP's answers to Javanewt's questions about if MP1's bet sizing? What does 350 into ~375 on the flop say? What does 800 into ~2175 on the river say?

I misread the hand, i thought post flop was vs utg, if its vs mp1 i’d be very tempted to c/r allin vs that small sizing .

However i think he has a missed draw a lot of the times so calling still seem like the best play in case he is getting tricky with that Quadzilla, i don’t think he sizes that big on the flop with Tx

Looks to me like he has 3 combos of TT a lot.

He might find the hero fold when u jam river but it’s worth trying Vs a rich fish

On river you can’t fold. You can’t raise. So..

I read his sizing as top pair, that's why i hated the turn card, and was in damage control mode. plan was to c/f unimproved until this particular card hits the board

I feel it's like this

As far as pre, 300 gets zero folds, nobody at this table is ever folding again getting that price, 500 and they probably all fold except UTG might be strong. I might get him to call and others to fold but these guys are very pot odds aware and they don't play tight in 3 blind games, so if i make it 300, pot size will be 1500 it's going to be a weird SPR for me OOP

the more i think about it, 400 is kind of the in-between size, so i think 400 should be the size but it still seems awkward