1-2nl
Villian is 200bb $400
Hero covers.

No reads on opponent, except hes a mid 20s white dude who just sat down from broken table.

6 handed
There are no limpers.
Villian is on the button and raises to 5
Hero is in the sb and flats with pocket 99
Everybody else folds.

Flop $10
7 9 10 rainbow

Hero checks
Villian bets 5
Hero raises to 15 total
Villian reraises to 30 total
Hero reraises to 75 total
Villian shoves stack to $395 total.

Hero must call $320 more to win $480

Call or fold?

realistically your only behind a set of TTs.

You insta call, even if he was insanely lucky enough to flop a straight you still have a lot of equity.

Lol, this is a pretty gross spot.

Ugh... With no reads I probably fold. Seriously gross though since you have shown sooooo much strength and then he just over bet jams it. Honestly the only hand you can beat is 77 and I imagine that most good players wouldn't play 77 this way either. If he's a donk then he can have the two pair some of the time here, but I just don't see that being the case very often. I think J8s and 86s make up the majority of his range.

For some reason I don't really see myself letting the flop come out for $5 in this spot. I would probably make it $20-$30 pre and take the initiative myself. I would also be sizing my bets and raises larger after the flop. C/r to $20-$30, and 4! to $150-$200 depending on Villains 3! sizing and whether or not I decide to actually 4!.

I did not 3b pf because we were deep, i was oop, and i had zero reads



I suppose the bets on the flop could have been larger, but as played..... ****ing sick grossness.

The range i put him on after shoving
[77, 1010, 68, 8J] and maybe at best 25% of the time two pairs or the random 8x hand.

I really am not sure whether to fold or call....

Note that a player is 5bet jamming in what is essentially a limped pot. I don't know about you guys, but in my experience this is the nuts or close to it almost always, regardless of how "unlikely" it is for them to show up with that hand give the previous action (which in this case it is completely possibly). I mean its not like he limp/rr pre and the is now trying to rep a flopped straight... he basically min-raised the BTN in an un-opened pot, he can absolutely have the J8 and 86 here. It also seems unlikely to me that he would make that same raise pre with TT, players tend to want to "win the pot now" with hands like 88-JJ.

These are valid reasons IMO. You may also want to consider not 4 betting the flop for those same reasons.

I completely disagree and this sounds way too cautious imo. He could easily have an overpair, he could easily play j10 this way he could play 89 this way, any two pair hand this way. That's a pretty large range and you're folding because he might have a set of tens, or the straight? And against the straight with pot odds included we're at least breaking even. There's no way I'm folding here, and if you do I think you are playing way too cautious.

With no reads, I don't understand the 4bet on the flop at all.

You would prefer flat calling with a set?

Please direct me to the game where players min raise the BTN with premium pocket pairs and then 5bet jam the flop un-improved on a highly coordinated board. The type of player who plays like this also raises to $30 pre in this spot and then bets $100 OTF because they are scared to the core of someone sucking out on them.

The player description also doesn't fit the profile. If this guy was 70 years old and just put his book down after two hours of folding to play this hand, then maybe, just maybe, he can show up with an over pair here. But honestly it just doesn't make any sense. If you want to make this more of a call, you can try to paint a picture of a drunk and wild 20 something year old maniac that jams the flop with the T8s or 87s. I'm not saying that I'm snap folding here, but I mean c'mon... Min raise BTN 5! over bet jam flop with an over pair simply doesn't jive.

Yes. Because when he 5 bet ships you get into this spot. Flatting allows you to reevaluate on the turn and more importantly allows for pot control.

I see a lot of guys try to play tricky from the button and induce a big pot with over pairs by playing this way.

And I don't consider myself a maniac at all, but I'd play 87s and J10s aggressive in this spot. I'm just having a real hard time folding a set right here - I really hate folding sets.

You should consider villain's possible actions before you 4-bet. If I'm 4-betting like you did, I'm doing so (partially) to induce a raise/shove. However, as you now know without reads this puts you in a very difficult spot here. If you would have thought this through before you 4-bet you would have realized that you really don't want to call a shove here. In general, villains at this level are not 3-betting light. When you raised you told villain you had a super strong hand and he still raised you which should have set off alarm bells.

if you play JTs this way in this spot, you are not a maniac- just a donk.

There is a difference between playing aggressive and 5 betting all-in. I also hate folding sets, which is why this is such a gross spot.

Hi, my first reply post

I don´t know why, with +200bb, you didn't raise OOP with pocket nines..

Then, when the flop cames, with these stacks, I think is a very good option to make a donkbet, because in this spot the villain maybe read this as minor strenght than a check/raise. So I think the best here is bet/call, and bet again like 1/2 pot in turn.

Ok, and now I´m going to explain my idea about the real hand, it´s almost impossible for me to fold the second set on table. You´ve got a lot of equity against his range: another set, straights, overpairs... Maybe I would change the size of the reraises (more money) because I want to go all-in in this hand, but in this situation, CALL.

Thanks, and sorry for my poor english...!

I suppose so, but i really feel like flatting middle set is just too weak. I also 4bet with the intention of folding to shoves. But when he actually shoved i still hesitated

Well if you aren't looking to get stacks in now then yeah. Personally I think you are ranging him too tight, but if you believed at the time his range was as tight as you did when he shoved then you should have thought that scenario through before putting in a fourth raise. If he's only going to play for stacks with such a tight range then you are probably better off getting to showdown.

In the end I think you learn a lesson in how much wider his range actually is and kick yourself for not pushing harder. I see guys who get folded to on the button with big pps make a tiny raise or limp then spazz out post flop all the time, I also see a guy with T8 or any 8 doing this. That doesn't mean it was the case here, but those hands need to be considered way more than 25% of his range. I'd be utterly surprised if the range you gave him was even 50% of his range.

Guys i did consider the ramifications of a shove over my 4bet. I told myself i must fold if shoved on. But when it actually happened i definitely second guessed myself

Its unfortunate because his shove prices me out of drawing to the boat. Assuming he has the straight

What goal does 4betting accomplish if we are not instantly snap calling this shove?

FWIW I'm leading flop and flatting a raise...unless I have a lock read villain has an overpair that will never fold...or I want to induce a spew tard.

4-bet/folding in general is bad poker at this level. I think it's really bad when we don't have reads. I don't think you should fold to this player without reads anyways. Most players are huge fish and I just can't give this guy the full benefit of the doubt here...and even if he has a straight we have equity. TT and 77 are pretty much a wash.

my thought proces was 4betting now allows us to get value from all two pairs and some 8x hands before a scare card comes on the turn or river.

In addition if i flat i would concede control of the pot and give him the chance to possibly bluff me off a set.

How is he gonna do that exactly? Is he just gonna shove the turn? Only realistic shot he has of bluffing you out is if there are 4 to the straight on an unpaired river.

Yes in general it is bad, but consider the spr here. I still have over 75% of my stack remaining