3-5 NL 9 handed game
Button is a loose action player, will bet in the dark and bluff bets any hand if you check, Button has $1200

I am tight player, plays few hands, I cover Button

3 limpers including myself in cutoff position, i have A-10os, Button raises to $30, 2 limpers call, I call

flop- A 2 5 rainbow

all check to me, i decide to check because I anticipate a bet by Button, button bets $45, 2 limpers fold, I call

turn 10 (diamond flush-draw is there)

I check, button instantly bets $165, i tank and re-pop to $465, Button snap allins!? what do I do?

Check/raise folding is pretty terrible. I think we're pretty much committing here when we check/raise.

What are the stack sizes? Do we cover villain?

Pretty sure we can't fold after check/raising the loose player.

btw, check/raising isn't really a good play here. We fold out most of the hands we beat, and usually only get action from better hands. I'd much rather just flat and keep all his weak Ax and bluffs in the hand.

Snap this is AK all day.

villain has $1200 and i cover

also, lets assume i table changed and this was the first hand i sat down at the table, and i have no reads on villain, all i can tell from eyesight is villain is in mid 30s and looks comfortable for the most part

why did you tank if you didnt consider whether you would call a shove or not?
as played, i think we have no choice but to call, but i dont feel delighted about it

You snap call because that's what you wanted to do from the outset right?

I'm not super thrilled about this spot either but I also don't sit deepstacked to the right of this type of fish nor do I limp call or play multiple streets passively with ATo as you did here.

Fold pre

ATo isnt a hand i want to play 4 way even in a limped pot

+1.. Did you tank because you were considering ranges, what your actions are and what you would do if it was repopped? Or Were you tanking because you were Hollywooding?

preflop - it seems alien to limp/call with this hand. We have the cutoff and a raise would sometimes buy us the button plus it's probably the best hand a good portion of the time.
tbc...

+1.
other than that, what´s tbc? tuberculosis?

This. Also yea this is a tough spot. I really feel like you're getting valuetowned but it's possible he shows up with 2p/flush draw/A3/A4 enough to make this a call methinks.

Oh and there are only three hands that have you beat here. I'm calling.

There is no way I'm overlimping two others with ATo with a maniac to my left. If I'm not raising this myself then I'm folding the first time around.

5 actually, sets and wheel, but I agree with everybody else. Raise pre, as played I guess you have to call.

30+45+165+300=540.
1200-540=660
540*2+30*2+660=1800

Have to call 660 to win 1800. Maybe you can get away from it if you are feeling good with a live tell or something but your c/r is really sized/designed to get stacks in IMO. If you didn't want to do this c/c, evaluate river.

Grunch:

Pre: I'm raising this myself and folding to a 3 bet. With 2 limps before me I'd say $30.
Flop: c/c is fine but you need to have a plan for I you don't improve. I'm goin to check and evaluate his bet sizing.
Turn: c/r is solid since he's the kind of player who won't slow down and you're only losing to about 4 combos. I size my raise with the aim of making river impossible for him to fold when i shove. If raised I snap it off.

"to be continued" - i.e. i was going to comment on the turn but had to run out.

The decision point is the turn checkraise. If you're making a c/r like that you mean business. You should not raise/fold for half of your stack, especially against a loose action player. Now, that description can mean different things. There are wild players who have a limit to their wildness, whereas others will indiscriminately bluff at any sniff of weakness. Some just do not give up on a hand when there is a chance to win it. Just from your description, button could be on the border between the kind of player you check/call down against and the kind you dare to put stacks in.

i check raised the turn to see where I am at and to get value from AK AQ AJ and make flush draws pay (if Button has a fd and I bet anything within reason I know he is calling unless I shoved allin on the turn)

Also, when villain shoves allin on the turn, I am thinking he might actually have flopped the wheel because earlier in the session he raised $30 pf with 4-5, flop came K36 rainbow, someone else bet flop and he flatted, turn is 2, someone else bet turn and he min raised, river came 4, villain checked and other guy bet and villain checkraised him allin and the guy tank folded probably wondering how a 5 is in villain's range on this 4 card straight board, i know thats only one hand i observed where villain had the goods, but I have seen villain also allin on the flop or turn with complete air just to win pots and get others to fold, my gut feeling was that villain is making a move because he seems to be the kind of player to try to intimidate and push people around by betting big or going allin

i guess the question becomes now, if i think villain most likely has the wheel or a small set, mathematically, can I still call for my full house outs?

I'm probably raising pre barring some read that the limpers limp with strong hands. On the flop check/call is pretty standard, and turn check/raise seems good. Snapping a shove from described villain.

this is a pretty costly way to get information

but in fact you do know where you are at, probabilistically, based on the hand range you construct for villain

You also say villain min raised with the nuts but tries to bully people with big bets when bluff ing.. call here as played

1. Why did you limp pre?

2. Why are you raising the turn if you're not willing to get it in?

3. Why are you raising the turn period? Why not let this guy have a shot to fire the third bullet? What is calling that you beat?

The flop is the only street I really like, I think check/call makes the most sense there. It keeps a bluffy guy's range wide.

By limping preflop, and then calling OOP with a dominated hand like ATo, you set yourself up for a rough spot. I agree with the above posts, we should open with a raise in the cutoff, then fold to a 3 bet.

At this point, since u are in it, u really cant check raise top 2 pair on the turn and then fold. We haveto hold our nose and call, and hope he turns over AK.

However, to answer your later question about calling if you know ur behind for the full house outs, I would say no. You only have 4 outs with one card to go, that is not good enough odds to stack off if u have a read that tells u that ur behind.

I'm confused about what you guys are so afraid of on the turn? There' not a lot out there that we have toworry about with a spazzy player.

Even spazzy players don't often 3 bet shove all-in light for 200+ bb.

In order for this to be close you have to limit him to sets.

AA=1
TT=1
22=3
55=3
I'll include 22 and 55 for the hell of it, but I would be surprised if he had that.

That's 8 combos. 8. If we did nothing but count 2p we'd have odds to call.
AT=4
A2=6
A5=6

We beat 12.
We tie 4.
We lose to 8.

Is he really playing 3,4?
There's got to be some chance he's playing a draw.
We're ahead and we don't even need to be to call. Go ahead and get it in.