10-handed 2/5nl game. Villain1 in UTG1 raises to $25,Villain2 in BT calls, hero in bb reraises to $100 with QdQs.Both calls. Villian 1 is not a decent regular who seems a bit stationy facing big bets.villain 2 makes small preflop raises frequently but often gives up on the turn after firing big flop bets as preflop aggressor.
hero~$700.
villian1~$650
villian2~$320
flop($300): K 46
hero? Should we check/revaluate or bet 1/2 pot on the flop?

I assumed they both called 3bet pre??? As played I think check is fine against straightforward fit or fold players who don't really bluff. Otherwise a bet fold of 140-150 is fine

A check fold is fine as well. In multiway 3bet pots on dry flops with a high card like this villains generally play very straightforward especially when u could be trapping with a hand like AA or KK

If we check, villian1 bets, villian2 folds, we fold? If hero checks, villian1 checks, short stack villian2 shoves,hero? They are not very straightforward players.I see both bluff in one or two spots though they are overall a bit passiva e postflop.B/F half pot is a better option?

I still bet like $175 on this flop since you would with AK/KK/AA and Vs are going to have a tough time calling with anything worse than AK

What is the worst you have seen villains call 3 bets with? Have seen either call postflop with less than tp? If you believe you can get called by worse bet for value, if not check.

If they are generally passive post-flop, I'd C/F. There are no realistic draws present. If checked through, lead blank turn for ~$140.

The rainbow hurts you. JJ, maybe TT are the hands we can get value from and nothing else? I'm shutting down a lot of the time here, HU easy c-bet though.

Bet $125 and keep the lead. You check, and you surrender control basically.

hero checks, villian 1 checks, villian 2 shoves his remaining $220, hero?
call or fold given such good pot odds.

I agree with b/f flop vs V1 and b/c vs V2. What are thoughts on 3betting bigger since we're OOP?

IMO,this spot and spots similar to this, and I think a lot of ppl will generally disagree, is where live tells can be a factor in what you decide to do. I think players now a days neglect this skill way too much in today's games.

But I would avoid this decision altogether and cbet flop.

My initial reaction is too lead but if you feel they are straight forward and not bluffing then checking is fine. I would check down and maybe call one bullet. IMO raising a little more preflop is a better option OOP

Hmm. Now I see the arguments for a small B/F OTF, though I really hate to turn hand into a bluff. I also don't see getting value from worse.

V2 could be making a play with JJ given the weakness shown. Read-dep, I'll stick with my initial C/F plan.

This doesn't make sense. Why are we betting if we're only called when beat by AK?

Are you calling the bet a bluff against KQ or AA?

Giving up the control puts you in this spot often. Now you gotta guess and i would lean to fold.

I can get on board with either a 1/3 pot Cbet or a check depending on villain tendencies. Based on read I might check flop and let villain 2 bet, and call if he bets, since I can see him spazz jamming anything reasonable he gets to the flop with given stack sizes. Fold if villain 1 bets.

3Way in a 3bet pot with QQ. I think c/f the flop is a pretty good plan A. We're in really bad shape vs any King or better, and I would expect villains to never give up on a king. People play these spots pretty straightforward, esp on the flop.

I think betting the flop is very rio. Without a maniacal image, we aren't going to get calls by worse.

If flop checks around, then I think we can consider a turn bet.

[QUOTE=Maskk;40081684]3Way in a 3bet pot with QQ. I think c/f the flop is a pretty good plan A. We're in really bad shape vs any King or better, and I would expect villains to never give up on a king. People play these spots pretty straightforward, esp on the flop.

I think betting the flop is very rio. Without a maniacal image, we aren't going to get calls by worse.




This is an assumption that may be true if you know the players mindsets, however relying on V2 to never take a stab after two checks is a bit presumptuous.

Just because an overcard falls and are OOP 3 way ---nowhere near places us on a just "give up" plan IMO. IF you believe the villains will never bet without a king, then fine. But if you bet small, one of them will call with TT JJ very often. Maybe not V1 but V2 will for sure often enough, plus we keep control.

Check folding is good if you trust both villains completely, but i dont see how anyone could without knowing them better than was explained here. Everyone these days knows how to stab steal IP and i doubt V2 expects any K to check on the flop.

[QUOTE=AintNoLimit;40083357] If this happens, what is the plan for a blank turn? Committed vs. V2, no?

[QUOTE=samo;40083562]


Check turn as I expect any JJ TT to check back once i bet flop and check turn.

I could even bet smaller on flop to ensure the light flop calls. Im never checking there though. Two players are "never" a favorite to have the King, thus Im never checking if there is any chance of being called with less----and they will for sure if you dont bet large.

Check/evaluate on the flop if I have a solid image. If I have a Bluffy image, I would c-bet small for thin value. I think that c-betting to "keep the lead" is a pretty pointless reason for betting. We should be betting if we think we can get called by worse. JJ/TT may call us with worse, but I also think that we may be blowing them out of the pot if we c-bet this in a 3-way 3-bet pot.

I would usually check/fold flop if Villain 1 bets a reasonable amount. I might check/call flop against the Villain 2 though.

Would never 3bet this pre, now you're in a terrible spot against drooler players who suck and you have to take a higher variance route instead of just letting them punt. 0% chance you would ever get value from jj or 1010 on this board, read one or two posts and saw someone said that.

...seriously? Guess OP should have asked the dealer what the flop would be before 3b

rubbish sir. surrendering control does not mean anything at all its meaningless. surprised by your comments.

@op as played its prob very close. V2 has widest range. but problem is V1 who checked flop has a pretty narrow range /=

if you think V1 4b AKo then i call if not then i prob just whatever fold since its pretty close either way. If it was HU i call.


and 3b obv fine unless V1 is tight, suggest ignoring advice from ppl who say its bad.

There is no law against being wrong. Which you are. There is NO flop with one high card that is a favorite to hit 2 other players (hitting that high card). Therefore if you check, you are basically saying that you give up---just because an overcard hit the board. It also horrendously polarizes your range to KKK, underpairs or air. Sorry, but those advocating check flop are just fundamentally 100% wrong.

Betting and getting called is our goal so you bet small. Betting into 2 players does signify some strength but live players cannot resist calling reasonable bets with underpairs if they have them simply because they dont exactly trust your small bet as being for real.

And keeping control of the hand IS vitally important. When OOP having the initiative and control might very well be the MOST important thing at this point. You think you can profitably play a check call game against anyone other than complete passive droolers, you would be mistaken. ANYONE can stab, and if you check call they KNOW you have nothing. All they have to do is follow thru just a tiny bit and ur done. Pitiful, weak strategy.

And BTW, vs me i would 3 barrel your check call with 100% of my range since you have KKK or nothing that can call 3 streets. Now they wont do that 100%, but you really have no idea how often they "might", so why just surrender to players at all? Are you 100% positive they wont think like me?

And against completely 100% weak straitforward players----which are not described as that totally here, you could check fold. But only then.

This is also a mandatory 3 bet pre, and flatting is playing nothing more than a weak defensive strategy which will is guaranteed to show the least profit overall.