This

Wait what? So we want to 4b instead of call because calling keeps his whole range in while 4b only keeps in his range that's > us.

On the flop we want to CR and fold out all of his weak hands, because we don't want him raising his entire range (which we crush?).

If he's going to raise a weak donk with his entire range we should absolutely donk. I don't think he will, but honestly if we CR we're called by KK, AA, and sets only.

We have no evidence that the guy is going to 3b light or bluff in 3b pots. So why are we taking a line that lets him play totally optimally vs us 170bb deep and folds out all of his bluffs?

I guess I have a difference of opinion. I don't like taking lines that fold out all of villain's crap and keep in all of his strong hands. I feel like a lot of the advice will lead to "hero 4b's, villain shoves, hero feels sick . . . tanks . . . tanks . . calls. Villain shows AA. I guess it was just a cooler" or "Hero CR flop, Villain shoves. Hero feels sick . . . tanks . . . calls. Villain shows KK. Just a cooler I guess."

IMO this is the problem with your thinking regarding the Villain. It's relatively subtle, insofar your read on his 3bet tendencies is either contradictory or not fully elaborated.

On the one hand, you are saying there is 'no evidence' he 3-bets light and therefore QQ doesn't have sufficient equity against his range. But, on the other hand, you are saying Hero should not 4-bet because he 'folds out all of his bluffs', which, by extension, suggests Villain does 3bet light, on occasions.

To be fair, I guess what you are saying is that Villain's 3-bet range is 10+/AQs+/plus some air. Is this right? If so how much of his 3-bet range is constituted by air. In the end, this should be a simple equity calculation.

Then, it's merely a matter of establishing whether Villain flats a 4-bet with anything less KK+. I would suggest AK is a distinct possibility of being within Villain's 4-bet calling range.

I agree that calling any 5-bet from Villain with QQ is plain wrong.

So, (1) what is Villain's 3-bet range and (2) what is Villain's 4-bet calling range?

So many levels itt it's unreal.

Flat flop

Hero played it fine pre and should now be trying to extract as much as possible from villains bluff range. ****in nits in the thread want to c/r a 873r flop when SPR will be < 1 on the turn and villain is aggro LOL seriously?

I have no idea what his range is. OP didn't even give us any indication what his 3b range is.

My point is that "villain raises first in from many positions" should describe basically any decent player in any NL game at any level.

"Villain 3 barrel bluffed a busted flush draw" =/= maniac LAG>

That's my only point. If he's non-horrible his 4b calling range should literally be like MAYBE QQ, KK+. Why would you call AK? What are you going to win money from? You lose to AA and get stacked by KK when a K rolls off. You get stacked by AA when an ace comes off. And you win nothing when he has QQ or KK or worse and you flop an overcard. So if he's good he's not doing calling a 4b with AK.

If we're 4b QQ, and as you say we're not calling a 5b, then we're on basically a 4b stone bluff. Which is fine if we know that's what we're doing.

Would you be ok doing this with A3s? Why is this worse than QQ?

heros hand is face up as jj+ to the villain hero has described, the villain hero described is not going to try and barrel some tight nit off of jj+ on this board, hes going to fire once on the flop and thats it with his weak hands... i think its a fairly simple call preflop and call the flop, fold the turn if he barrels and we dont improve

Against a strong LAG reg 4-betting QQ is probably only for value, if we have been 3-betting light. So, in this case, you're right, as Hero hasn't been 3-betting light.

But, if hero, does 4b say a hand like A-3, which is definitely ok IMO against this type of villain, then this allows him to 4bet QQ for value in the future ...

I agree that 4-bet calling with AK is not +EV, but players still can't muck this hand. Generally with AK it's best to either 5-bet shove or fold; of course, 5-bet shoving is very much dependent on stack-sizes, table dynamic and player types.

I decided to call flop bet of $165. Pot $600.

Turn 10x

I check and villain bets $300. What do we do? What do we beat now JJ, AK, and air? Does he do this with air? He has to know I got an over pair once i called the flop, but still bets the turn. Pot 900, we are getting 3 to 1 on a call. Call, Shove, Fold?

Fold>shove>call. You're 53% if you put Villain on 10+/AK; 29% if Villain is 10+ only. Shoving $550 into $1150 is never horrible, as you can see from your equity, but not really necessary and a bit spewy, unless you can honestly say Villain would double-barrel with AK. So, in the end, you need a specific read, based on history with this villain or evidence from previous showdowns.

Since villain sounds like he's decently aggressive but not overly tough or anything, then calling pre, calling the flop, and c/f the turn is probably the best line. Folding pre is too weak. Check calling the flop is standard. Like leakin said, the guy is going to know you have an overpair if you called the flop. His bet smells like a value bet so I'd fold. He won't be trying to barrel you off JJ+

If villain was very aggressive / tough to play against, then I would just fold preflop. Of course if he was really aggressive, then his 3betting range is going to be wider in which 4b/f is probably best. From your description of villain, I think the first option is best.