Live 1/2

Hero (BTN) $220
Villian 1 (Cutoff) $240

Hero dealt 1010

Villain 2: Limps
Villain 1: Limps
Hero: Raises to 14
Villain 2: Fold
Villain 1: Calls (Says i cant fold every hand)

Flop: 986 Pot (~35)

Villain Checks, Hero bets 18, Villain raises to 45

Hero?

Hero is relatively tight, sometimes nits up to much and sometimes spews but usually pretty competent. Villain does bluff sometimes but is also tight is aware of image, lines, also competent.

fold

i guess 77 or TJd or even A9 are a possibility, but looks like a set against an opponent you read as tight.

Tough board. I would fold if he is a tight player. He probably has a set, two pair, or big draw. I would wait for a better spot to get your money in.

I think I'm gonna put Guile's Theme on my iphone and next time I check-raise someone I will play it. This thread must made me realize how well it matches getting unexpected check-raised in the face.

fyi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iof5pRAIZmw)

Guile's theme goes with everything though... though Ken > Guile in the game though...

One of the funniest things I have seen in a poker room was a guy who had the australian wheel of fortune bankrupt sound on his iPhone, and played it anytime someone got sucked out on or stacked. One guy took offence and threatened to belt him the next time he played it, so the guy played a drumroll clip....

The things you see at LSNL...

its like the best music, especially start it right after a huge river check raise!

villain won't know what him him.

How quickly did he check/raise? I think the speed at which he makes this move is an important piece of information. IMO, the quicker his action, the closer this is to a call or raise. If he took his time then check-raised, especially with any hollywooding, then it's a fold.

He pretty much raised within 5 seconds then i re-raised to 90 mainly because i didn't want to get outplayed....then he re-raised me all in and i folded? lol so bad. I just didnt have it in me to fold to the check raise..guess i need to learn.

I flipped my 10 10

He showed 7s5s

Your thought process is wrong and by 3 bet folding you just got MORE outplayed.

I think I normally peel one off on the flop with a gutshot and backdoor diamonds.

Folding maybe the best option. Flatting is not a disaster depending on villain. Shoving could once in a blue moon be the best line your line is terrible because you lit your money and your equity on fire.

I have been c/red in this spot by TPTK without a re-draw, but usually, your opponent does have you beaten here and folding is not a bad thing.

I do not hate the 3bet on the flop, but only because you can get two pair, pairs + gutters, weak draws, and similar hands to think twice and fold, turning your hand into a bluff. Of course, you will not get the nuts or a set to fold, so make sure you know that your opponent is capable of raising here with a hand that is worse. Many people at the 1/2 or 2/5 level are not, and you even indicated that the opponent is tight. A 5/10 game is different, as people will be c/ring with a bunch of hands as bluffs/semi-bluffs that fall outside of hands they wish to stack off with.



Calling here with the intent of folding to a turn bet is weak, as your villain is betting the turn 85% of the time and only 6 cards (a 7 or a T) would cause you to stick around.

not results oriented, I'd check back the flop.

You must have the lowest variance of any winning player on the planet. I think checking flop sucks when we can get called by so so so many worse hands. Play a big pot for once in your life.

So we are raising to fold out the part of his range that is worse than our hand, yes also turning out hand into a bluff. I'm confused.

This.

You bet, 87, A9, T9, and a bunch of worse hands and ANY draw will call you. When this happens, we are likely ahead and can proceed to go to valuetown with our overpair.

Which gets back to why 3betting the flop is bad if we do not believe our opponent is spewy. Only a spewy player will raise a draw or TPTK out of position (or TPTK in position, IMO...people really have a penchant for playing big pots with TPTK). If he is not spewy, then he either has us beaten or has more equity than us, making the decision a clear fold.

you get bluffed off the best hand a lot here, and it's very unlikely that he's got a decent range of worse hands that's calling the flop.

I'd like to see your range for hands that he c/c with.

All that betting accomplishes is putting us into a spot where we have to fold after putting more money in the pot.

fwiw playing a big pot here is very spewy and hugely -ev

In one post you say he is c/r with worse hands a lot, now it is massively -EV to play a big pot, make up your mind.

are 78 and 67 worse hands? Are they raising here? Should we be folding if he raises given his raising range?

Reading comprehension buddy.

We check back to kill half his equity on a lot of hissemi bluff range.

We also give him a free shot to realise whatever equity he has, fail to extract value from 9x, 8x and 7x. Of course the times we get c/r it sucks but you cannot convince me that betting this flop is bad.

giving him a free shot at improving is better than giving him the pot + a cbet when we have to fold when he raises.

This board could not possibly hit his range any harder.

It is more of a "value bluff", if you will. Against some loose villains, we will get weak draws and TPTK to call us, and against some tighter ones, we will get 2 pair to fold. We also gain control over the pot size with our overpair on the turn and the river if flatted. Calling the flop here sucks if we fail to improve, as we would need to call the turn and likely the river as well if we want to see a showdown...we may have the best hand, but we will not be sure of it until the opponent's cards flip.

However, value bluffing serves no purpose here because we know the profile of our villain, it is apparent that the villain is tight and would only c/r if he is willing to shove, so folding is the best option.

You would say the same on a kq9 board. And whether giving him free equity or bet floding here is better worse is pretty obviously a function of how often we get c/r which is way less than you are assuming IME.

OK, the value bluff, now everything makes sense. How do you rate the three bet fold BGP?

I think it might have being dumb to post this hand, because its hard to generalize a correct line. I was just so confused when he check raised because it was rare for him to do. I really don't see many players check raise in live play so i was like bleh, ill 3 bet/ fold. I often start to think people are trying outplay when its just not the case. Big leak in my game.

I mean can we bet fold aces here? Because my hand is not that much worse if not better esp since 10d10 which blocks a lot of huge draw hands and is the main reason i 3bet and decided he has min set if he insta shoves. If he has to think about it and looks pained i would have put all my money in to be honest.

Overall maybe the thing i can take from this thread is that when you are check raised from people who don't do it often you need a big hand to continue. Yes?