If I realized the correct action, my 4b would have been to 550.

+1 to ravager102 on the 4b pre

id also just go ahead and 3b the perceived 7x vs a guy who 3bets that wide (esp if youve seen him open anything premium to 100)

call flop, i think turn is a (close) fold

based on the 3b range you gave its really hard for him to have something worse than QQ, esp after betting twice. even if hes clicking with TT/88-66 some % of the time, if he follows thru on river we probably arent going to have a profitable call (or retroactively turn call) since it seems like we have to win at sd some times to make up for the $ on non-Q rivers if hes not folding anything on clubs. if you really think this is all/most combos of TT/88-66 (or you have some other sizing tell) then call turn, but personally i wouldnt assume that as a default.

If you are 4b/folding queens otb 400bbs deep with a fish, it's time to rack up.

You also don't need initiative with queens on the button. I really don't care for the word at all tbh, but do understand the value of aggression of course. You'd prefer to be the aggressor / flop leader with 9Ts from lp, for example.

if he 3bets fairly wide, 5 bets exclusively KK+, and calls 4bets a lot with everything else, why wouldn't we 4b?

i also don't like the word initiative, but as far as it describes a situation where we often reach the flop with a range/polarity advantage, are checked to often, and rarely played back at, then yes i think its a good thing. the main reason i want to 4b QQ is to play a bigger pot, though.

If vill has any kind of fold button im float/float/stuffing probably all board runouts. It seems vill could be pretty wide here but unless he has a set+ (maybe some Axcc?) its so hard for him to have a hand to call you with. This imo is a great board to turn your valuey hand into a bluff, the question is if its vs the right opponent.

This is a good explanation to 4b/f I agree. Villain running like 30/30 with ft3b% <30% but 4b% of like 1%. I would like to hear Renton and his science help me understand the specific situation that occurs in live poker so frequently: villains open wide, and they flat 3bets wide, but they only 4b KK+.

A long time ago after studying Baluga I did a lot of work to get myself out of the habit of 3b/4b folding value hands and started flatting stronger, specifically when the situation merits it. It has worked out really well for me. To be sure, I still 3b 99 vs the right villain in the right situation, but I also flat QQ a lot more than most.

That said there are several very good pros that I play with that 3b a nits UTG open with hands like TT, then they yawn fold to 4b. I'm not talking about wannabes clicking buttons, these are players who are clearly very good. They actually have very little flatting range in general. Why do they do this?

I think in this situation, what would be the bigger mistake. Cold 4betting an UTG open followed by a 3b, and folding to a 5b? Or flatting in position what is likely the best hand but in a value heavy range distribution from villains. I would be significantly irritated by the former, whereas the latter will surely win us money, sometimes a lot of money.

I don't like to eat at the poker table. Not only do you miss out on stuff, but also I suspect a blood sugar spike can wreck your mental state.

They suck?

A lot of good, not great, players are really bad at adjusting their pre play. They even realize the ranges in play but somehow they just automate trough the first steps. Or maybe the nit flats the 3-bet with his whole range minus the top and is really easy to play in HU pot IP. I'm not sold though.

Probably thinking: "My flatting range here is too obvious, better 3-bet everything. I get some folds and get to play this hand IP HU against a range that TT is about even." or just "I 3-bet TT."

Sounds like clicking buttons to me.

Agree just sounds like mashing to me

I usually get food that is way easier to eat like salmon...if I had the opportunity to play more often I would take legit dinner breaks, but sometimes I don't get to plays for months due to work schedule therefore I play as many hands as i can.

AA, imaginary, do you think it's a clear 4b pre? With both a random 7x open and also vs actual action.

Hmm, I think it's a 4-bet with those ranges. Would I 4-bet in the actual table with all the weirdness that is going on? Probably not, but I really, really should.

I think it's a clear 4b vs actual action and clear 3b vs imaginary 7x

I can't imagine not wanting to put in another bet/open up the action again in either scenario

Yea I think making it 550 or so pre is pretty mandatory in either scenario.

Interesting, not sure I would use the same sizing for 7x vs min raised 3b

Thoughts were 625/f and 550

Interested to hear your reasoning for same sizing

Edit- sizing for the 7x is obviously hypothetical sizing if I had chosen to raise instead of flat

Based on description he seems like the type who's not going to fold often and is only 4betting KK+ and we want to iso him.

I'd 3b the 175 and 5b the 500. Also, Jimmy, was your 'dilla a steak one?

Why are you choosing 550 for your sizing and not a larger amount if you don't think he is folding?

Edit: nope, had to look it up lol http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=20

I was waiting to see if there would be any more discussion regarding sizing for the options preflop before continuing.

Now to continue:

Hero calls 1000

River action
1. Q of clubs
2. K/7/club
3. Total brick
4. A/J/9/3

Hero's action when checked to

Hero's action when villain bets 1.8k