Hero (BB) 500+ - Good Player, 2p2er, Aggressive, Likes to Apply $$$ Pressure, Deep Thinker, Excellent Hand Reader, Often Plays Higher (and is way, way, way over-rolled.)

Villain (SB) ~$475 - Unknown to me, Young, Quite Aggressive, Wide Calling Range PF, Not Afraid to Make Moves Post Flop, Will Charge Draws and Value Bets Thin (played with him for 2h+ and he's been active)

Other Villain (MP) ~$40 - Bad Player, Inconsequential (except maybe on the flop due to his stack size)

----

MP calls $2, Villain calls $1, Hero raises to $17, MP calls $15, Villain calls $15

Flop: Kc Qs Xd <-Something Low (4,5,6.etc)
$51 (3 Players) Villain checks, Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: Td
$51 (3 Players) Villain bets $25, Hero raises to $75, MP folds, Villain (tanks then) calls $50

River: 2x
$201 (2 Players) Villain checks, Hero (mini-tanks then) bets $160, Villain (tanks then) raises to $385 and is all-in, Hero (ponders for a long time as it's $225 to call $746 but he eventually) folds

Villain (after a lot of badgering) shows a 2d

What does Villain have? and... What would u need to call in Hero's shoes?

The best i can guess is A2dd. If he is loose and overconfident maybe J2dd also. Dont count out totally K2dd if he reads your minitank as betting One big pair for value.

To be clear (I'm not the Hero)

I don't think he was bluffing. I think he had two-pair.

1. Your line was strong, and OTR with your SPR/previous-action you won't be folding a lot. Villain would be horrible if he thinks bluff raising is profitable there. Since he isn't horrible, he had a hand.
2. He would have liked to show a bluff, but he couldn't because he had two pair. He probably knows he made a horrible call PF and doesn't want to show the table. He probably had K2, Q2, J2, ect. Villain check-raising OTR makes sense because he expects you to bet OTR given your raise OTT and a seeming brick OTR.

you're MP right?

As for hero, I think he played the hand horribly. There are almost no holdings that hero should take this line with.

Tough call w/o a straight or set here imo. Even with a set this is still a tough call. Pretty sick bluff from villain OTR and I don't expect to see bluffs here very often after villain take this line but maybe villain is perceptive enough to realize that hero's line makes absolutely no sense at all.

Like Princess Azula said what hand would hero play this way that is going to be able to stand a river shove? AJ and TT? That's it really, and it seems like hero would bet a board like that with AJ. Unless of course hero took a weird line with a flopped set. I like the bluff shove OTR from villain a lot because hero is often bluffing with the best hand in that spot and the times he's not he's got a weirdly played set like slowplayed QQ,KK or TT which is almost never good to a river re-raise.

There's too much meta-game/leveling in this hand or maybe I'm just creating it and it's really not there. Either way I'm glad I table changed from that table lol.

Lol

I think Hero out leveled himself. Hero has two pair, either KT or QT and got greedy deciding to go with the weak raise on the turn. I agree with ANL, villain probably has A2dd.

I think villain is actually hero on the river... wants to ask us how good a bluff it was?


by the way, if hero raises turn, then why is he folding on the river to a c/r when a complete blank hits

I'm an not the Hero or the Villain. Hero is a 2p2er, Villain is an unknown. Another forum member was at the table, one just changed tables (and posted in this thread already) and yet another observed the last half of the hand (and was asking me what the action leading up to the river was.)

I know what the Hero had (as he told me later) and the Villain told me what he had a little after the hand (and I semi-believe him.)

I meant hero's line including his fold OTR.

My best guess is that villain has Ad2d and hero has TT

Ouch. I think you owe Jarretman an apology.

TT?

I agree with Princess, villain has K2/J2, unless he's clueless about pot size. Then you could put A2 in there as well. A set of T's for the hero.

If he's clueless, I call with 1 pair, if he's understanding that I almost can't fold to a river c/r shove due to the good pot odds, I need 2p+. I call with a set for sure.

Looks like Villain has K2d and hero has KQ slow played on flop. It does seem like hero has a holding that he played badly.

Why's that

Hero almost never has KQ here. TT is possible as well as complete air.

^ was hero you?

Unless the villain is a huge nit (which reads say he isn't), I'm never folding TT OTR having to call $225 to win ~$750 and getting 3.3 to 1.

Hero only needs 24% equity to call.

I wouldn't believe him. He was "badgered" to show. He refused. He really didn't want show and have everyone know what he had. So he just showed one card.

Why all of a sudden does he change his mind and want to give away what he had? I don't think he does.

More likely, he'll just pick a hand that makes him look good, or hero bad.

My friend was telling me about a hand he played where his villain raised PF. My friend called with 97s. The flop comes: K97. My friend leads, and his villain folds.

Later, as we were leaving the casino, we see his villain and he asked him what he had. The villain said, "KQ, what did you have?" My friend says, "Oh, I had KQ too."

Then, we are walking to the car, my friend says to me, "Damn, I played that bad, I shouldn't have lead, I should have slow-played. I lost value."

I say, "Wait, if you lied to him, he could very likely be lying to you."

ouch, hero prob had a set and folded to a busted flush draw or just a player making moves

Villain and I were talking quite a bit before and after the hand (mostly about poker but other stuff as well.) I had him narrowed down to a few hands (in my head) that the action dictated. He casually told me what he had and how he got there including his thinking and such (and named one of those hands.) I asked him if he was 'bluffing' or raising for 'value?' He said, "honestly, I don't know." BTW: His legs were shaking during the hand (one leg bouncing rapidly) whatever that means. I'm 99% sure of what hand the Hero was holding as we talk poker a lot and he had almost no reason to lie.

smallfish was a spectator (for the last half of the hand) and at the time I said that if I was in the Hero's seat I would have called with any pair given the price and the fact that neither line made sense. In fact, I think I said that I'd call with A high (but that was just bravado lol.)

I also wondered aloud if Villain could call if Hero shoved (or what he'd need to call?)

Hand was crazy and the table sucked for the most part (except for a couple stations at the other end.)