hello everyone,

per james's recent blowup, and a general recent influx of many similar/repeating posts/threads, we are making a new thread to try and contain some of these threads all in one place. we think this will improve the forum both by reducing clutter, and by making a one-stop destination for many of your needs. we will move your thread into this one if it is about things like:

stats issues
nl vs lhe?
vpp per hand?
what limit to play? what site to pick?
book recommendations/discussion/argument
how to play in loose/tight/etc games?
halp new to limit what do i do
general threads that make me and james go 'wat' and shake our heads
other things to be determined at a later date.

please note this is not a new LC/NC thread. all LC/NC stuff keeps going into that thread. this thread is more about things that are content-based things, but that keep popping up and/or aren't super relevant to a lot of folks.

let the good times roll.
sincerely, BBB and James

how many vpp per hand you guys get at:

a) 1/2 Full Ring
b) 2/4 Full Ring
c) 3/6 Full Ring
d) 2/4 Six Max

d) is about .5 per hand. some of the fr guys can chime in for the rest i bet.

go to stars vip level calculator then select 1 table and 1 hour per week of which ever stake you want to know the answer for then divide the monthly answer by 4 giving you the hourly, then divide by 75 as thats the avg # of hands for a limit fr NOT the 80 pokerstars says it is.

soso, do you have link to that calculator? thanks

Here's my digest of NL player wanting to play limit threads.

This was borrowed from here.
Here
Here
Here
Here
Here


+1 postcount, imo

http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/calculator/

That calculator isn't very accurate, per the SNE thread in internet poker.

well let's just post all our known figures. i know some of you guys must have them for every level. i have primarily 6m figures. i'm pretty sure these are all floating around on 2p2 somewhere anyway.

the calc on stars is WAY off iirc

for me
.34 for 1/2 full ring
.41 for 2/4 full ring
.49 for 2/4 6 max

i often start games so my #s may be a bit skewed

Can you still play for money online in the US. I haven't played for about 2 years
If so what is the best form of money transfer to use I used to have a net teller account but you can no longer use it in the US ?

Thanks John

minenow - depends on the site. pokerstars and fulltilt take debit cards, echecks, etc

I am a noob. I won't post general questions , but what about hands I had trouble with?
Do I first look if somebody posted similar hands?
If I don't find any, how do I decide if the question is worthy of posting?

posting hands in the main forum is fine

you don't need to look to see if people posted other similar ones

just don't put the results in

I stated the above earlier, and I should add that if you really know that book well you should be beating low limits games if you're playing live. Few people at the low limits will have studied that book. Few people at those limits will have studied any poker book.

I can't emphasize this (the advice I quoted above) enough. If you study a book for beginners you will play better than many of your opponents at the lower limits. SSHE is a book that covers a lot more ground than the best beginners books and as a result, your game should be much better than the average opponents at your table after you study this book.

Also, there is so much good information in the book that if you just read it from start to finish a few times, you'll forget a lot of what you read. This isn't to say that it's a bad thing to read it from start to finish. You should do that. However, it does help to concentrate on the chapters that you may be having trouble with. If you have any questions, that's what these forums are for.

When newer posters come on the forum and ask about how to beat low limit games, there is a reason why the response is often "Study SSHE." The book is that good.

One thing that might help is this:

archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=5031920&fpart =1&PHPSESSID=

The above is a link to a SSHE study group from a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, the group fizzled out after a few weeks, but at the very least it can't hurt to take a look at it. If you click on the link, it will go to week 4 of the study group, and you will also find three links to the first 3 weeks of the study group.


Another helpful link is this:

http://pokereagles.net/poker-forum/showthread.php?t=846

This link goes to a site with links to poker quizzes by Ed Miller, who is one of the authors of SSHE. It's good practice and a good way to review some of the concepts in SSHE.

I anticipate that someone might respond to this post by saying something like this: "But I studied SSHE and I still can't win."

If that's the case, then you should try to post some hands on these forums that you had trouble with, and you may even post some hands that you feel more comfortable with just to check up on things. That way you'll get feedback from others and this will give you a better idea of how well (or how poorly) you're playing.

If someone really thinks they understand the material in SSHE and they aren't winning, they could be:
1. Getting terrible cards, or
2. They don't understand the material in the book as well as they think they do.

Posting hands will help people determine if the problem is #1 or #2.

I'm fairly new to online poker, but I've played alot live, never really kept stats. I'm playing .50/1 and I'm up about $150. How far ahead to you think I need to get before I can be pretty sure I'm playing a winning game and move up to 1/2?

Also, any recommendations where to find the best 1/2 games? The site I've been playing at doesn't have many.

thanks,

milkcave

i would start taking shots when you have around $400 and have at least 600 before you move up for good, assuming you're beating 50-1 for at least 1 BB/100.

You could try a search, this kinda topic arises on a fairly often basis.

Or perhaps try the LC thread challenge.

also check out this link

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...sitors-369538/

Steve, thanks for the links. I got on to Ed Miller's quiz (scored 4/8 on the first one). The link to the study group appears broken, however. Maybe it's been moved?

I appreciate the comments, though I'm still perplexed by Doc's remarks. He starts out by complimenting me on my "verbage" (there's no such word unless it's meant to be an assimilation to garbage??), but then goes on to explain, in a seemingly serious and genuinely helpful tone, some of my errors. He ends by placing quotation marks around mature, leaving me to, once again, question his sincerity.

At any rate, the comments have given me much to think about, and I do wish I had more hands to offer, but only the KK hand sticks out in my memory.

Doc, I had 3-bet pre-flop with that hand, and had the initial raiser cap it. I called, as did 3 others, so we were 5-handed to the flop. Now, I don't remember if I 2-bet the flop or if I just cold called, but it did get raised and capped, and all 5 went to the turn. (I can't recall if I was in the BB or on the button). After the turn, we were just three-handed. I do believe that I just called instead of staying aggressive, because I figured the initial aggressor at the table (a no-limit player waiting for a seat) would be raising it anyway, so why should I raise in case I'm beat?

The KK-hand is the only reasonable hand I had. I sit for the remaining 2+ hours folding. I mean, if folding is a skill to be learned, I've got it down pat!

36Limited, it would really help if maybe you could give us a range of hands you'd consider playing preflop, from what position, and with how many bets/players ahead of you. Are you going strictly off of what's offered in SSHE's starting hands? Keep in mind that because of the way poker is, you will have sessions where you just don't get anything decent to play with. It happens, and you just have to ride it out. Next session you may hit the cards hard, or you may not. That's poker.

Being a resident forum n00bs, one thing that's been really helpful, and that I haven't done enough of, is writing down hands to post here. The information posted in this section of the 2+2 forum is beyond useful: it's money making. The people posting here are honestly the most open, helpful people on 2+2 imo, and they really know their stuff. And like Steve said, it can help us figure out if you're just getting terrible cards, or if there are actual problems with your game.

Anyway, don't be discouraged; I've certainly been in the position you are. I think, to a large extent, I still am. But we're all here to get better.

The link to the study group does work. I've clicked on it a couple of times and it worked. Unfortunately, I checked it last night and I had to click on it three times to get it to work, so it isn't always going to work if you click on it.

Those quizzes by Ed Miller are a good way to test how well you know the material in SSHE. If you're getting a lot of those questions right, and if the quizzes feel easy to you, then you probably know that book pretty well. If you're struggling with the quizzes, or if a lot of the questions feel difficult to you, then chances are you don't understand the material in that book too well. The answer to that problem is to study the book more. Of course, you can also use the quizzes in SSHE to test how well you know the stuff in that book.

If you struggle with the quizzes, then you've probably discovered why you're struggling to beat the 3/6 limit games. I read SSHE about three of four times before I tried the quizzes in the book, and I struggled with some of them. It was only after I studied the book even more that I finally felt comfortable with the quizzes.

Nothing seemingly about it. I was both genuine and serious.

I apologize again. It's sort of a running joke around here as to the "50 and over crowd." We've given frond a complimentary early membership to this elite group. I'm sure mikeca extends much love, too. Us old farts have to stick together in the midst of these hyper-aggro whippersnappers.

Welcome again. I mean it this time, too.

Hey guys...which training site would be the best to join for FR LHE? tia

It may have a bit more of an effect than you're appreciating. Are you getting a lot of action on your premium hands or are your opponents avoiding you unless they have strong hands as well? The effect of the rake will be greatest in small pots.

Also sounds like you may be getting "blinded to death."

Hey 36,

I don't have SSHE, though I hear it is a great book. Hand charts are great for starting players, but I think you probably have moved beyond them experience-wise. You really need to think about the situation in your game as it relates to the hand you've been dealt; i.e. you have A2s, and you know that every pot will be limped 6-8 ways. What position would you play this hand? I'd play it anywhere at the table, from UTG to the button (and certainly the blinds). How about 22?

For a great summary of loose game concepts, look at this site. For even better reading, look for threads here in the archive and in the rgp archives from Izemt and Abdul. I know that the concepts of jamming draws and taking advantage of equity edges are in the 2+2 books. However, I think that many people who read the books miss the idea that a great part of the profit of a player who crushes these games comes from these concepts.

You can't crush a no-fold'em game by being ultra-tight. You won't do it by making great folds. You crush the games by jamming your large edges. A nut flush draw, a BDSD, and an overcard vs. 8 players can be jammed for huge profit. Understanding how and when to c/r versus b/3B these hands is where you make a lot of money. I play 30%+ of my hands in passive LL games; being a nit isn't where the real profit is.

GL,

Doug