Hi all:

I played my first session today and ran at -6.41ptbb/100 at $1/2. my non-showdown pots and total winnings were pretty much straight down.

i was multitabling.. and my stats were

vpip10.3 pfr 8.4

am just so sick of playing NL and think the reward program is better for limit players.

i read ed miller's holdem book about a year ago (didn't play limit after i read it though) and have read sklansky's book as well.
i'm really looking for some intermediate strategy to get me to being a >0ptbb/100 player at 1/2.

thanks for the help

If you came from nlhe, I'd probably tighten up while you're still making the transition. I guess it depends if you are playing full ring or 6max. Definitely Stox Poker is good if you want to read on 6 max limit.

Or any of the low to mid stakes limit videos from Cardrunners or Deucescracked.

If you are new to limit, do not multi table until you have a grasp on the concepts needed to win.

Realize that bluffing is less effective, but semi bluffing is more useful depending on the situation.

Variance is higher than NL so you will have large upswings and downswings, have a bankroll of at least $600 if you are going to play 1/2 limit.

Finally read and reread small stakes holdem. Play some. Then reread it again. Play some. Then read it again. Get it ingrained in your head. You may think you have the concepts down just by reading it once or twice but it takes a lot of play and a lot of studying to get the concepts down.

losing in non-showdown pots is normal, that's just the nature of LHE.

Just make sure that you don't fold your share of equity too often before the river.

Also, if anything, you probably want to loosen up from what you are used to for NL. Use a starting hand chart, but 10% vpip is very very low, especially at small stakes where there are tons of opportunities to enter multi-way pots.... just dont get carried away

Aren't most rewards based on rake paid by the table? I never thought of limit as being a great way to clear bonus/RB, but I've never gone to your side of the fence. Do you just have so many minimally raked pots that you never make any?

It is odd that two other people said "play tighter". Dude, you're a total nit. 10.3/8.4 looks like other NL stats I've heard for multitablers. You're basically waiting for a monster and someone who is too dumb to notice you never play a hand, right? They hand you their whole stack once in a while and you have a good session?

I think "normal" stats would be in the 17/12/2 variety, and several of us play 22/16/2.5 (at least me and BisonBison) in a FR game. In 6m, you'd see a lot of posters from 25/18 up to 30/22 or so.

Bad news: if you're playing FR 1/2, you picked a level known for bonus whoring nits. This forum has many tales of people who had trouble with this limit. If you're new to limit, playing 1/2 FR on PS or FT is a tough way to break in. I'd recommend starting at .5/1 at those sites, getting in 5k-10k hands as a solid winner, and then thinking about moving up.

If you're thinking you can transition to a new game while playing a lot of tables at your old limit, I think you may be a bit optimistic. I'd start out with fewer (or exactly 1) tables, start at a limit you beat, and then ramp up as you get up to speed. I'm not sure that any book will be much help at 1/2. SSHE wants loose passive games not seen at .25/.50 or above. WITHG is for higher limit shorthanded games. Other LHE books that consider mid-limit live games might apply, but the OL games are much tighter and more aggressive than anything anticipated in the book.

I guess if I had to have a strategy to start 1/2, I'd take the hand charts out of Winning in Tough Hold'em Games. I'd try to datamine as much as I could and find loose passive players to play with on my right, especially people who open-limp. I'd start paying a lot of attention to pot odds on draws, you're going to have them often.

Doug

On the same boat as OP.. been playing SSNL for about an year and a half, and I have made a nice profit (30K+) so far but I want to move to LHE because I think I'm better suited for that game. I can't consistently play 22/18/3 6-max game that's preached by many.. I keep going back to 18/13/2 game and I can't win in non-showdown pots (I can't double-barrel well). I think LHE "could" be better for me..

Are we still raising with 76s from CO/OTB against normal TAGS behind? Are we playing pretty much ABC with occasional bluffs here and there to mix it up? I plan to 9-table eventually, is $1000-$1100 good bankroll for 1/2 Limit? Is rakeback better for LHE (hourly), since more hands are played per hour? So many questions, I apologize in advance..

Are those NL 6m stats or limit 6m stats? If these are limit, a lot of people preach 30/20 and those people play with an AF lower than 2.

That's 6 max NL stats. I just realized that I'm in a wrong forum, I'll check out 6 max LHE FAQ's

Keep betting until they tell you otherwise. Value bet thin.

Don't fold river in big pots for one bet.

Position is still very important but not as important as it is in NL.

Don't slowplay. In limit it is rarely correct to sacrifice an edge on an earlier street in the hope of recouping it and more on later street. Slowplaying multiple streets is often even more wrong. Build a big pot with your goods hands early and they'll keep calling. Do the same with semibluffs and you'll win big pots when you hit.

Do not build big pots with marginal hands and then fold. This is most applicable to short-handed games. In those games you often gain more by letting your villain in the betting lead - 'you need a hand to call but not to bet'.

Bluffing goes down in value. You can't buy pots so easily. C-bet more, OOP and IP than in no limit, though.

Speculative hands like small pocket pairs and suited connectors can be played but only in the correct spots. They can win big pots but big pots in FL usually require a big crowd preflop.

When first to the pot, open with a raise. If you don't think your hand merits a raise, fold. Do not be the first one to cold call a raise preflop.