Seeing as there is not point getting PT3 as pointed out in the previous post, when can i can get my hands on PT4? or are there any manuals so I can start reading up on it to learn how it works

what made you give up on hm2?

probably better off discussed in a HM forum.

I can't ask the question in the HM forum because the guy i'm asking isn't there.

Yes - PT4 has a conversion from HM1/2 as part of the Setup Assistant which runs the first time you run PT4, or from the Tools menu.

Can you please describe exactly what you mean? PT4 will import the hand histories and player notes from HM1.

PT4 is currently in private Beta testing by some users who got one of the codes we made available a week or so before Christmas. I expect that a few more codes will be released over the next week or two (although I don't know the exact plans, so I can't say for sure) to our Facebook and Twitter followers or through forums like this, so follow us and keep your eyes open!
Otherwise, we hope to have the public Beta available within the next month or two, depending on how the closed Beta test goes.


--WhiteRider

you can manually add $ in bonuses to your rakeback line, so for ex if i have 30% rakeback and there is some special promotion like $100 reload bonus i just add 100 to bonuses section in HM.

you can find it under options/settings/rakeback & bonuses

I'm looking at a friends copy of PT4 (because frankly HEM2 is pissing me off and I'm excited for something else to come along).

I do have concern that I can't seem to find some stats I'm looking for. I realize you do stats by position and IP/OP which is awesome, but something as simple as:

Fold BB to Button Steal

seems to be completely missing. You can set fold to LP steal attempt and then select BB as position, but that includes both the CO and Button. I don't see a way to do the relatively simple stat above. Any help? Hopefully that gets included soon if it can't be done yet. It's weird because BB vs SB is included. Oversight?

The manual and FAQs are still under development for PokerTracker 4, this is a big part of the beta process - PokerTracker uses this time to develop support tools while testing is taking place.

We disagree with your assumption about PokerTracker 3 however, especially since players who purchase PokerTracker 3 now will get a free upgrade to PokerTracker 4 once it is released. We have not announced the price for PokerTracker 4 yet, but we have acknowledged that a price increase will occur.

The manual tracking of bonuses is on our radar, but we cannot confirm yet if this will be included prior to commercial release.

Not an oversight!

As Yoda once said: "you must unlearn what you have learned." The naming of stats in PokerTracker 4 is more efficient than past tracking applications, the downside is that this creates a small amount of confusion at first when people look to find stats they have long used while players learn the new terminology.

In the tools menu, click Statistics. Then type in Steal in the seach box to find all the steal related stats. Pick from either Fold to Late Position Steal or Fold to Steal (this includes steals from the SB) based on your preference). In the HUD profile editor define the position for your selected Fold to Steal stat, in this case it would be set to Big Blind.

BB vs SB was included as a dedicated stat because we were concerned there would be confusion between Late Position Steal and the general steal stats, it is the exception to the rule to help us avoid this confusion.

Yes, I get all that but you appear to have glossed over my question.

There is no stat for:

Fold BB to Button Steal

I see how to use the positional stats, but that doesn't allow me to set the position the steal is coming from. LP includes both CO and Button while I want just hands vs. button steals

I haven't looked into it yet but I assume 3bets have similar problems.

is there gonna be an all-in EV for tournaments like in HM? Im specifically talking about HU SnG. in PT3, I can only view my EV when i filter hands/chips.

And when is it going to be finally available for purchase? First it was Q4 of 2011, then early Q1 of 2012, now it seems that we will have to wait another few months...

thanks

Sorry, hard to search for a single letter....but will it have 'M' Stat? (that actually works and is real time)

PT4 has built-in stats for 3-betting against open-raises (or any 2-bets) from specific positions (e.g. "3Bet vs BTN Open"). You can combine this with the positional version of a stat to build a complete grid if you like. We don't yet have folds vs specific positions, but they can be built as custom stats and may yet be included as built-in stats - thanks for raising this idea.


PT4 has some ICM functionality like this already, and more is to come.
It will be available for purchase once the beta period is completed to our satisfaction - we don't want to start selling a product which isn't ready. We currently have a couple of hundred people beta testing PT4 and that will be extended soon. Once we're happy that any serious issues are sorted out we'll extend availability.


PT3 and PT4 already have an "M" stat which works based on information from the end of the last hand. Since the only information we have is from the hand histories, which are written after a hand completes, that is the closest we can get at the moment and works fine except for one hand after the level changes (or after someone rebuys).


--WhiteRider

PokerTracker,

I have a question to ask. Basically from what I understand if I purchase PT3 now I will be eligible to free upgrade for PT4? (Please correct me if it's been changed somehow)

My situation is that I am LeggoPoker subscriber and have the ability to purchase PT3 trough their website with nice discount in the price. My question is do I need to purchase from your website directly to be eligible for free upgrade to PT4 or can I go ahead and purchase trough LeggoPoker with the discount and still be eligible for free upgrade to PT4 when it's get released?

Thanks,

The glossing over was intentional while we discussed your post internally, I did not have a complete answer for you at that time because there was an existing debate internally, but we have come to an agreement. As you may know we are working hard to be as forthcoming and transparent in our decision process as possible, therefore I thought you might enjoy reading about the discussion we had.

The one thing we all agreed on is that very few people need to know the difference between folding to a late position steal (CO and Button combined) or folding to a button steal in a HUD design. The difference between these two stats should be very small in almost all situations, for example if an opponent is folding to a late position steal 40% of the time in the BB but only 37% of the time from the Button then this could be just the randomness of card distribution which determines the difference. Its rather trivial. But with that said, we are fully aware that this is a necessary component for some players even though the difference is rather trivial.

We also looked at the needs for reporting within the PT4 app. We designed the reporting system so you could achieve this goal by looking at the By Position reports, or if you wanted to use a different report, such as By Session, then you could filter to the position first then look at the Session. But the problem remains in the HUD. Normally we would say that this should be a custom stat because the differences between folding to a LP steal and a Button steal should be rather small for most players, but there is a strong enough argument that there is a demand so we have decided to add them into a upcoming beta build for your convenience - expect Fold vs BTN Open, Fold Blind vs CO Steal and Fold BTN vs CO Open soon! Although these four new stats will not be included in any reports, they will be shipped in upcoming versions of PokerTracker for greater customization flexibility.

PS: I have included a screenshot of our 3Bet stats in PT4 below, if there is anything you think is missing let us know - we will either show you how to find it using our new nomenclature or address it through additions if we feel it is necessary. We really do listen, this is how we improve PT4!



Leggo Poker purchases do apply towards the free upgrade offer. I will send your post to Leggo management to confirm. Hope you enjoy your new PokerTracker experience!

PokerTracker,

Awesome support in adding that. Sometimes with your competition I feel like pulling teeth to get things looked at. I can tell you from experience of using that stat with the other software that there is often a huge difference between how often someone folds to a co steal and how often someone folds to a button steal in the aggressive NLHE/PLO games (sometimes it is 25 percentage points or more). Especially at NLHE, fold BB to button steal is one of my most used stats so I'm thrilled to see it added.

I've only glanced at the 3-bet stats (I'll look more in depth later when I'm not playing) but I think you've got the most common ones covered, especially with the ability so select positions and IP/OOP that comes with PT4. I'll take a closer look later as something might be missing I'm not thinking about at the moment.

25% may in fact just be an inaccurate blip on radar\if there is not a big enough sample between the two opportunities, in general we believe these two stats will correlate better than you suspect - but alas as shown below we could not come up with a sample size big enough to prove us right or wrong. PokerTracker 4 includes scatter graphs which are very helpful to see how large of a sampel size is needed to get any effective data, and also allows you to correlate the difference between two stats.

In the example below we added a filter so we are only looking at hands from the BB. The X axis shows Fold Blind to Late Position Steal (our existing stat) and the Y axis shows BB Fold to Button Open (this is a steal as well, but we use the term Open due to PT4 nomenclature). The sample size exceeds 500,000 hands, with a minimum of 100 hands played and 500 hands played respectively.

With a minimum of 500 hands played we only have 9 data points to show and there is some variance between the two stats, however they correlate very closely as I predicted in my earlier post (there is little difference between 85% and 92% over a sample size of 500 hands).

With a minimum of 100 hands we can see how the datapoints greatly increase, but the variance also increases due to sample size.

The only thing we can truly take away from this experiment using the Scatter Graph built into PT4 is that the sample size required to accurately determine the difference between folding to a LP Steal and Folding to a Button steal may need to be as big as 10 million hands with 2500 or greater minimum hands. Of course you can also use the scatter graph to debunk many theories about stat ranges that are commonly claimed without a proper sample size to determine if the claim is correct, that could be a major benefit next time your arguing against a strategic line in the 2+2 strategy forums ;-)

Please post your own graphs once the new stat has been included, we would love to see how your own results correlate!






- TT

Hate to interrupt the conversation, but i wonder if the time adjustment to the HH timestamps has been added to PT4?
thank you
Andrew

While I agree that screen scraping is probably a bad idea as a general solution and would prob create alot of extra work in maintaining, it is not true that windows can't overlap or be stacked or moved.

I use screen scraping to get current pot size and players stacks to calculate SPR and it works fine and runs smooth and has required very little maintainence

Mvh
Inga

Time adjustment is not included in the PT4 spec, however it is not too late - you may lobby to have this included by posting your request on our support forums.

- TT

Yes.

You may find some issues during import, and if you do then please notify us so we can investigate. But in general it is safe to say that HM2 import works great out of the box.

- TT

to say i'm surprised is to say nothing... As suggested - request is filed (https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/...=37608#p188090)
thank you

Take a look @ the amount and complexity of bugs/issues and suggestions at corresponding sections of the support forum on PT site.

For the past 3 weeks ( i think 3 weeks ago private beta was made available to a 100 (?) users) there are ~300 topics open in bugs section alone. Granted they are not all bugs. But also it's not a public beta either.

From my point of view - "private beta" - is alpha version.
From alpha to beta, normally for the more or less complex product that undergoes an architectural change - from 3 to 6 months.
From Beta to Release - another 3 months.

Considering that developers define scope of work (based on users hammering @ the door), and if they run good Agile, maybe we can deduct 2-3 months from the total wait time.

I would love to be wrong, but i would be surprised to see release quality before June this year.

PokerTracker,

At the moment, I own a pokersite-branded (NoiQ) version of PT3. If I do a paid upgrade to the full version of PT3 now, will I be eligible for the free upgrade to PT4?

If you are speaking from a position as a PT4 beta tester, then I think you are misrepresenting data. The vast majority of the issues/bugs for PT4 on the PT forum are minor with, IIRC, only one bug that caused any degree of involuntary sphincter contraction. That particular issue, dealing with aliases, was fixed in the time it took me to grab a quick beauty nap.

I hasten to add that the PT4 beta was in stark contrast to it's competitor's beta where crashes were the norm during the initial phase; yes, I was a beta tester for that application as well as for PT4.

Sorry to butt in on your response TT.

Nope. i'm not a beta tester. As i said earlier - i'll be glad to be proven wrong.

I'm far from been excited about PT3, but i'm even less so about HEM2. So if PT4 comes out sooner then i think and will have more streamline design, better performance, better GUI and decent quality - i'll be very happy and will be the first to admit that my view was incorrect.