cant believe so many posters ignore the fact that under those stipulations he charges us 92.5% makeup is seen as "standard" or "legit".
Nobody thinks that package would have EVER sold then. Just try it out yourself.

4. OP should have stated if seat won the travel parts of the package would be used and not cash valued for backers. Those "dollars" are worth nothing in reality, room paid by PS, travel $$ is just reimbursement.

since its worth nothing in reality, can you please pay my bahamas room and flight ? ill play the main event for my own $ and give you 5%
sounds cool ?
But lets be serious: OP didnt state that, i want my fair share of the equity i bought - as do all other investors.
cant believe there are people defending people op for a 5k travel freeroll.

Would it help if all investors also emailed him? If so, please PM his email.

It was sent to PokerStars Steve here on 2+2. I sent him a PM. Just got a response from him saying he'd reviewed the situation but couldn't give cash value for the package.

I think this is on the right track. I don't want to say that I'd for sure like to keep my 12% equity in PCA, but am certainly open to the idea if I get my fair share of the rest of the investment back. I'm potentially open to this idea as a compromise, but not as an ideal solution. Ideally, I'd absolutely like to get my full cash value back as I'm 100% with you as I too backed you with the belief that I'd get the cash back. I know this has been said a hundred times by investors, but I doubt that most (if not all) of us would have invested knowing that there essentially was a 90% MU for the packages.

Okay, so what is your Plan B? I believe a number of good ideas have been suggested in this forum already.

We aren't remotely close to a solution as far as I can see. You, me and Exxplosive worked out an option that has me giving up 10% equity in the PCA and gets investors up to $173 per share, but more than one investor has objected to that option which leaves us stuck back where we started.

Jeeze... how are these critical details not determined before a package is sold?!? This seems rediculous to me

Well, I never agreed to the $173/share as it essentially valued the extra "package" as zero. However, I was willing to work from there to find a solution.

Alright, I have some experience selling % to satellites into live tourney and will say one thing - I'd never ever think that I have the full privilege to the additional money in the package. The common sense and the right thing to do is obviously to pay out the 5k by %, I mean how is this even arguable? This alone to me is indication of a huge angleshoot, there's no way anyone would invest in the package if they knew OP was just going to pocket 5k of equity just because he has to go there and OP's just exploiting the lack of explicit agreement, despite everyone experienced realizing it.

I cant even believe people are willing to move past this, this is just such a common sense thing.

What is the timeline on the AP score? We should at least be receiving the amount that we shipped to FTP/stars b/c this amount does not need to be moved between sites

This is what they are allowed to get away with on PTP all the time and they come here thinking they can do the same. Well people here arent as stupid as PTP.

great post.

Will Stars not give you T$ for the package rather than cash? How about if you unregister does it give you T$ or is the first package you win a must play?

All PS live MTTs through sats are must play afaik

Could we get links to these packages on PTP??? I need a good laugh.......

Out of these 6 prior to Lipo's post, 2 said play it(exxplosive and senzu) and 1 said fine either way and asked tax questions(xxd3pxx). So in my eye's the only 3 that have a real bitch are Thinky, Mobills, and malli88 (20% of total action sold). Weather or not you realized you were getting taken for travel expenses you said play it, implying your fine with getting back same portion of what you invested if he cashed in PCA. If you weren't you should have mentioned it when you said play it, or after he posted his answer to Lipo's question prior to him playing (which none of the other 50% invested did).

I am not involved (and should prob just not post), but think he will pay it out to save what is left of his reputation, but don't think anyone is entitled to the travel shares except the above 3 mentioned. Just my 2 cents, as I am a nobody. Some have said this is not how staking works well it should be buyer beware and no asked any questions until they realized what was going on, which I don't think his true intentions were to charge a 95% markup on satties.

No offense, but that is not how it works.

Why shouldn't I have the ability to change my mind? I said sure play it, after briefly looking at the THREE satellites in question.

After he won it, I read up on the exact details, dates, etc., and decided to go with what he said in his first post: that cash value can be given to anyone that wants it.If he said, "whatever you say before I play will be binding," I'd have done a lot more research.

If you think it should be buyer beware, I guess that's just your opinion that I wouldn't be able to change, but I've been buying a lot of action here the last few weeks especially for wcoop and haven't had time to scrutinize every detail of every package. The OP clearly has an option of saying the same thing as you ryhenicee.. but the odds he will are very slim, as I doubt he'll ever be able to sell action here again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDK6ctRjqw
^ you'd tell these two it's buyer beware also, I'm sure

I was/am totally fine with him playing it. I just did not think that he thought that he would be freerolling the value of the travel. And fwiw Ken if you can end this where everyone can feel like they did not get screwed, I personally (obv can't speak for everyone) can look past all this and would certainly invest in you again as I think you are very +ev player. I truly do think you were not trying to angle shoot here and just a really big case of miscommunication and that mistakes are going to happen.

+1
would definitly invest in future packages, great player, just not maybe another satellite lol

100% agree that is not how it should work...... but he has the same defense you do. He said it would transfer to same percentage if he won. He did win and now everyone is not ok with it. I agree it is not right but he spelled it out that way and now you guys are feeding him to the wolves for something he said he was going to do. And why can't he change his mind if you can and not offer cash if PS won't pay cash. Your right he will likely not be able to sell any action even if he makes it right. Which is sad as I don't think his true intentions were to pull a fast one. I don't know OP but from all indications he usually is a stand up guy, which he still is in my eyes, as he did what he said he was going to.

"Your right he will likely not be able to sell any action even if he makes it right."

fwiw, this is not what I meant at all. I meant that if he chooses to take a "buyer beware" stance on this, then he would probably have trouble selling in the future.

He's a great investment and I have % of him in wcoop and would look to invest again, as long as this is settled in a manner that everyone feels is reasonable.

I PM'd him an offer that I'd be willing to take now to step out of this ($175/share), but I never got a reply, so I'm assuming he wants to figure this out as a whole, which is fine with me.

http://forum.parttimepoker.com/buy-p...event-bap.html

http://forum.parttimepoker.com/buy-p...-reserves.html

You really should have included it in your op like you have in these

http://forum.parttimepoker.com/buy-p...tep-grind.html

**** op you have made a right mess of this aint you, imo i think you got lazy in your op and wasn't trying to freeroll the fact that stars wont let you take the cash makes this situation 10x worse

Anything outside the US is a must play I think

I think you guys are piling on Ken a little here.

From my perspective Ken def has to assume a good portion of the blame by not being clear about how expenses would be treated and stating that sat wins could be cashed out (I think he intended it as being able to re-sell the action to other investors, not immediate cash, but it came out wrong). What investors need to understand is there is a huge difference in charging expenses from a Super +EV Satellite into a $10K event then selling the $10K event by itself with expenses. Now is $4500 an appropriate number for expenses, of course not. But that is the BS # that Stars is charging it's players for 9 days of lodging/food at the overpriced Atlantis. If Ken were to book this on his own, he could probably do Airfare, Hotel, and Transportation for $1500 - $2000. Do investors really think it's fair that Ken should have to eat all this extra unneeded expense money that Stars is charging? He's not there for a vacation, he's there to play poker.

Now a few of you said you wouldn't have invested in this package without the cash option. While I appreciate that, I believe this package would have still sold out if Ken had been clear and stated that if he shipped a seat, a reasonable amount would be taken out to cover actual expenses (say $1500). You know why, because it's sick value to get a top player in a $700 Sat and if he wins, you don't have to pay markup on the $10K event.

So, to summarize, Ken def could have handled this situation much better, but investors should empathize just a little with his situation and figure out an expenses number that is fair for both parties. Best case would be getting Stars to credit for Lodging/Food and making his own accommodations, but I don't know if that is possible.

GL to Ken and investors - hope you all win big at PCA.