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03-10-2014 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski
You're so good at creating strawmen that I think you probably worked on the show props.
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03-10-2014 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
in real life i'm sure most cases don't have every question answered either. the unknown is a bitch sometimes
I like how it ended. I enjoyed the miniseries from start to finish and have no complaints (other than the showdown between the detectives and Childress). I like it better when primary story is told, while leaving other things open.

So, this show is a big winner for me.
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03-10-2014 , 01:51 PM
a lot of the stuff with the paintings looking similar / similar motifs all over, I think can be explained in that it's a motif for the pervasiveness of the Tuttle/Childress clans, how long their roots have been dug into the community, and how their influence and tracks show up in all kinds of places
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03-10-2014 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethChantler
I like that NP quote about being tricked.

I only read one piece during the series on Grantland (maybe?) and the author was saying how everyone in the audience was wondering if Rust and/or Marty were involved. I am glad I picked it up when Ep 5 was already out because I think I might have read a lot more theorizing.

I may watch television a bit too passively, but I never suspected either a whiff. I thought the characterization (among so many other things) let us take Marty and Rust as they were portrayed, at their word so to speak. After all what we see is not complimentary whatsoever.

Instead of reveals, twists, or cheap thrills, a lot of the 'reveals' in the show was the progression, regression, and reparation of their relationship, what they revealed to one another, which culminated in the final scene, where we see Rust acting like a human being.

That an entire grandmaster unravelling of the pedophilic network did not occur, I mean this isn't Conspiracy with Mel Gibson, more than one of the perps had died in the interim, and it seems pretty likely that those who participated in ritual had pegged Mr Spaghetti Monster as a goto fall guy should they have to. After all he lived on the land where the rituals were held, he probably did most, if not almost all, of the abducting for their purposes.

In short I think its pretty plausible that most key members of the circle had either died or insulated themselves through their connections with higher office. We are not made to feel as if the trail had run cold in terms of further indictments based on the physical evidence found on the scene, when Marty is being debriefed at least. They aren't going to get everyone. But they got their guy. They found Carcosa.
Good post.
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03-10-2014 , 01:53 PM
The thing I'm most disappointed in is never seeing exactly how the guys like Reverend Tuttle interacted with the guys like Reggie Ledoux and Errol. After they had the shootout in the jungle and MM went to see Tuttle, I think we all expected something to come from that and nothing did. It's very clear both high society and backwater crazy people were involved yet that was never explained beyond "some of them were relatives." That doesn't exactly sit right with me.

I still think it's a near perfect show and an awesome character study and I loved every minute of it. These two feelings aren't mutually exclusive at all I don't think.
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03-10-2014 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
I'm not sure why you're mocking this concept so hard. Again, a ton of fiction is about the characters more than the plot. For example, the first 7 episodes of True Detective? Did you guys get super angry that the first part of the season included all that **** about Marty's infidelity and ****ty parenting?

"This double date scene isn't telling me ANYTHING about the identity of the Yellow King, why is it in the showwwwwwwwwwww?" - you

RacersEdge(between you and him disliking this, are your jimmies rustled because the bad guy was Southern and white?) is weirdly complaining that the boat scene didn't lead to a clue. Correct. They wanted to see what he knew, he explained that he didn't know very much so they went back to square one. What was difficult to follow about that?

(It also introduced that the bar owner was helping Rust and was entertaining because the *******'s car got shot up, and it's fun for the audience when our heroes use their smarts to cow a blustery ******* in silence.)
lol? I just wanted to see more of the cult that was the whole focus of the show. It was unsatisfying to just have a showdown with the lawnmower guy and that's that. Nick Pizzalotto saying "naw bros it's a character study" is a total cop out. It sure seemed like a detective mystery story to me. Two detectives riding around in a car trying to solve a case. In a show called True Detective. Looking for clues, doing detective type stuff.

And Rust going on about the "sprawl" of the thing. Oh hey the sprawl is just one dude apparently.

And of course a story can be both a character study and an engaging mystery. They aren't mutually exclusive. I liked the character development of Rust and Marty but just because that was good doesn't forgive a really lackluster conclusion to the mystery. Which is why people saying "it's a character study" are missing the point.

Last edited by SenorKeeed; 03-10-2014 at 02:07 PM.
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03-10-2014 , 02:04 PM


imagine going through there on meth & LSD (the combination of those two drugs has been describe as an "introspective nightmare")
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03-10-2014 , 02:10 PM
Green paint on the house was National treasure type ****. I loved the show (esp first 5) ep but was a tad bit disappointed by ending. I think if the show had a few more episodes it would have really helped. Everything felt a bit rushed to me.
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03-10-2014 , 02:14 PM
Worst part to me is they kidnap a sheriff to question about the Fontenot case. He says it was Childress, they believe him, and nothing else comes of that.
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03-10-2014 , 02:15 PM
Actual Police Investigative Work Done on True Detective Finale, Angers Thousands
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03-10-2014 , 02:25 PM
Thought the Carcosa scene was amazingly well put together. The house, the woods, the building were all hauntingly ****ing creepy.
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03-10-2014 , 02:29 PM
Enjoyed the show with a few caveats. Really wish it could have been a bit more like season 4 of the Wire somehow. Also, I'm a huge huge sci-fi fan, and I would have loved if there was some outer-space epic type material. Thought they might go that way with after all that vortex stuff, but never followed through. Also, 20 some odd years later I still can't look at Woody Harrelson without thinking of that dopey bartender from Cheers. Then I want to do my Cliff Clavin impersonation which annoys the **** out of my wife. Still, a top three all time show for me.
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03-10-2014 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleSam
What they messed up in the finale is the scale. Throughout the series, this conspiracy was built up and built up - it was multi-generational, it was all across the state of Louisiana, it involved an indeterminate number of men. The evil caused by this conspiracy seemed to creep into everyone's lives (i.e. Audrey) without them even realizing it.

And then the finale focused on one crazy-ass, multi-voiced backwoods psycho serial killer. It sort of fulfilled this weird fetishization that we have now for psycho serial killers as super human creatures that are supernaturally cunning and powerful. This focus on the one man psycho machine betrays the rest of the series because it doesn't seem so "grand" anymore as it did throughout the rest of the series - the evil doesn't seem as systemic and pervasive as it was portrayed earlier. I'm not saying that a satisfying conclusion would have been for Rust and Marty to catch the rest of the conspiracy members. But just having the one throw away line about 'we can't get 'em all, but we got our man' is a HUGE ****ing cop-out. Such an ending undermines the entire rest of the series.

That being said, the acting by all was great.
+ 1 that finale ep was bad.
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03-10-2014 , 03:45 PM
I thought the Carcosa scene was a little derivative of...video games, of all things. MM is walking around this creepy place where he could be attacked at any time while the omnipotent directionless voice of Errol speaks to him (but at the same time, he can't hear WH shouting?). In a show that's been very good about not being like Lost, having to suspend disbelief felt out of place. The environment was very cool and creepy though.
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03-10-2014 , 03:48 PM
Massively let down.
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03-10-2014 , 03:49 PM
And for everyone upset about the lack of attention to Audrey, think about how little you would care (with the exception of a few posters who discussed it endlessly here) about that side plot and demanding resolution if you never read this thread and never saw the comparison screenshot of the mental hospital mural w/ the picture at WH's home.

Thanks for that, Reddit.
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03-10-2014 , 03:56 PM
Is anyone upset about the lack of attention to Audrey? I thought they might come back to that in the finale but I'm not disappointed that they didn't. I'm disappointed that the finale kind of sucked.
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03-10-2014 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
And for everyone upset about the lack of attention to Audrey, think about how little you would care (with the exception of a few posters who discussed it endlessly here) about that side plot and demanding resolution if you never read this thread and never saw the comparison screenshot of the mental hospital mural w/ the picture at WH's home.

Thanks for that, Reddit.
The doll scene was easy to notice without Reddit or screen grabs...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums
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03-10-2014 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
And for everyone upset about the lack of attention to Audrey, think about how little you would care (with the exception of a few posters who discussed it endlessly here) about that side plot and demanding resolution if you never read this thread and never saw the comparison screenshot of the mental hospital mural w/ the picture at WH's home.

Thanks for that, Reddit.
See: Homeland
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03-10-2014 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Is anyone upset about the lack of attention to Audrey? I thought they might come back to that in the finale but I'm not disappointed that they didn't. I'm disappointed that the finale kind of sucked.
Uh, yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti
just to be clear, when you say this are you including the audrey stuff? as far as i can see, the lack of audrey resolution was the biggest gripe people have with the final episode.

the single largest piece of evidence that she would feature again in the plot was a full-screen 5 second long shot of a doll scene that seemed too much of a coincidence not to be related. trying to group that in with something the crazy reddit detectives came up with using freeze-frame is pretty disingenuous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashington
I think most of the disappointment stems from all those easter eggs. And imo that's a valid point. Either they mattered, or they didn't. If they mattered, they deserved resolution, or at least some acknowledgment. If they didn't matter, why were they there at all? To get the show TRENDING? To generate discussion/buzz? To just straight up troll the audience? Just poor film editing?
Among several others, Neuge, the puppy eating guy, etc.
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03-10-2014 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Is anyone upset about the lack of attention to Audrey? I thought they might come back to that in the finale but I'm not disappointed that they didn't. I'm disappointed that the finale kind of sucked.
The lack of attention to something that needed no attention? No, not really. Angry teenage daughter is an angry teenage daughter.

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03-10-2014 , 04:14 PM
The last episode's pacing was a bit off for a single episode standing alone(no intercutting of multiple plots, just an A-plot for the first 40 minutes and then a B-plot denouement to play us off).

It was just fine for the last 1/8th of a single coherent story, though.
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03-10-2014 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I thought the Carcosa scene was a little derivative of...video games, of all things. MM is walking around this creepy place where he could be attacked at any time while the omnipotent directionless voice of Errol speaks to him (but at the same time, he can't hear WH shouting?). In a show that's been very good about not being like Lost, having to suspend disbelief felt out of place. The environment was very cool and creepy though.
Cohle not being able to hear Hart was actually very believable. It shows the extent of the maze, and various portals had stuff in them, which would further dampen the sound. Lawnmower man's voice was only directionless until the end, as far as I could tell. I don't remember any panning until the final room, though I wasn't sitting in center position when watching the show, so there's a possibility a lot of it was panned toward the right and I wouldn't have noticed subtle panning based on where I was sitting. I'm guessing he had set up a vantage point above the maze where he could see, or he was playing with the rat that he knew could only go in one direction based on how the maze was set up (he also could have been in a central location that gave the directionless feel of the voice, but that idea is kind of a stretch) . It stands to reason that he knows every nook and cranny of the maze, so I didn't have a problem with any of that scene at all logistically.
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03-10-2014 , 04:16 PM
"Is that all there is?"

Like some of you, I felt a little let down at the end of the final episode. Maybe not so much about the lack of explanation for Audrey's behaviour as by the fact that all they got was Errol, that Sherriff Geraci had so little to tell them, and that there is a clear implication that the higher ups got covered up. And by the closing scene.

Then I got to thinking about the connection between Rust's closing line and his rant at the revival tent. I had previously suggested that his nihilistic outbursts were a sign, not of firm conviction, but rather of inner conflict. And the conflict was about matters that were fundamentally religious. If one buys his nihilistic expostulations as genuine, then the closing line is more a betrayal than a mere letdown. But if you thought Rust was a man who protested too much, then the line becomes indicative of the beginnings of acceptance.

The negative philosophy was a form of running away, lashing out and self-punishing in reaction to the flawed world that contained his daughter's death. So was the drinking and drug use, and the dangerous undercover work. The disappearance to Alaska - a place he did not like - after Tuttle got the system to stymie him and Maggie destroyed his only remaining human connections, was another manifestation. But a man remembers his debts, and eventually a man realizes he cannot be responsible for it all himself. He needs help, and even then it can't all be accomplished.

Rust woke up in hospital sharing with the audience a sense of let-down. He didn't get the death he sought - to be reunited with his daughter. He didn't take down the whole conspiracy. The monster at the end of the story was perhaps a little less than what had been hoped for. But that is as it should be, or at least, the way it is. When one looks up at the rural Louisiana night sky, it isn't pure white, just less totally black than it used to be.

When we consider that Pizzolato and Fukunaga produced a closing episode that puts the audience in a very similar emotional state to Rust Cohle, maybe we too will find acceptance and the realization that maybe we don't need to feel so let down after all.
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03-10-2014 , 04:19 PM
Literally no one in the audience wants to be in a similar emotional state to Cohle. They want to see a satisfying ending.

In before "Pizzalotto turned the trope of detective stories delivering satisfying endings on it's head! Masterful! Brilliant! BRILLIANT!!!"
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