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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-25-2015 , 12:25 AM
All I have to say is the lawyers did steal the show and it goes to prove that not all lawyers are lazy pieces of ****
12-25-2015 , 12:39 AM
At the very end, when his laywer said something like:

"I really hope Steven Avery is guilty, because the justice system has failed him horribly here"

That was amazing. You can tell he loses sleep over his clients.
12-25-2015 , 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 Making a Murderer
At the very end, when his laywer said something like:

"I really hope Steven Avery is guilty, because the justice system has failed him horribly here"

That was amazing. You can tell he loses sleep over his clients.
I am nowhere near the caliber of the defense attorneys in this movie. That being said if you care about your clients and their cases and are a criminal defense attorney you will lose sleep. I cannot fathom how much work these guys put into this case and honestly found myself asking question like how much did their marriages/relationships suffer as a result of it. That is one reason I am transitioning out of doing it. If you care then it is extremely emotionally hard and if you don't care then you know you are just another scumbag fleecing the poor/criminal class.

Now if you really don't care about your clients, have no conscious and just try and plea them out as soon as possible so you don't have to do any real work then I am sure you sleep quite well. That is why ole Len could still have a smile on his face while on the stand late in the doc AND STILL PRACTICE HIS ****TY BRAND OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE TODAY. He doesn't even think he is doing anything wrong while being a complete scumbag. A lot of that is because Len is a lot more normal in the criminal defense bar than the two heros from what I can tell.
12-25-2015 , 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbaseball Making a Murderer
How are the jean rivets any more incriminating than her actual bones? If the bones were moved so could have been the rivets with them. My biggest question is where is the blood. That garage was a mess filled with all sorts of crap everywhere. There would be blood spatter somewhere that was uncleanable. And if you are so good at cleaning up blood why leave your own in the car you left on your own property as well as a burn pit full of bones. Too inconsistent to be both so professional and amateurish in the covering of tracks.
Yeah.

They mentioned there were remains or something found in both the pit and the burn barrel.

Don't see how finding the rivets is a big deal at all.
12-25-2015 , 10:03 AM
And there were remains found in some quarry that was not on the Avery property. Forgot that in my list but how in the world does that fit the prosecution theory.
12-25-2015 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaDM Making a Murderer
I am nowhere near the caliber of the defense attorneys in this movie. That being said if you care about your clients and their cases and are a criminal defense attorney you will lose sleep. I cannot fathom how much work these guys put into this case and honestly found myself asking question like how much did their marriages/relationships suffer as a result of it. That is one reason I am transitioning out of doing it. If you care then it is extremely emotionally hard and if you don't care then you know you are just another scumbag fleecing the poor/criminal class.

Now if you really don't care about your clients, have no conscious and just try and plea them out as soon as possible so you don't have to do any real work then I am sure you sleep quite well. That is why ole Len could still have a smile on his face while on the stand late in the doc AND STILL PRACTICE HIS ****TY BRAND OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE TODAY. He doesn't even think he is doing anything wrong while being a complete scumbag. A lot of that is because Len is a lot more normal in the criminal defense bar than the two heros from what I can tell.
I don't know anything about the legalities of being a defense attorney, but it seems as if some sanctions should of been imposed on Len. What he was doing seemed worse there just incompetence. Didn't seem as though he was looking out for his clients best interests in the least.
12-25-2015 , 03:35 PM
Len is wow bad. How is he still allowed to practice, ridiculous. Railroading a ******ed kid unbelievable.
When slow kid asked mom what inconsistent means and mom didn't know really opened my eyes to just how dumb these people are.
Stevens lawyers were captivating.
12-25-2015 , 04:08 PM
Holy **** this was an amazing watch.

The fact this is actually real life is extremely scary. If this was a movie you would be picking some serious holes in the storyline!

Just incredible.
12-25-2015 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biesterfield Making a Murderer
Can we agree that Steven's defense attorneys were the stars of the documentary?
Was kinda sad when they weren't around for his appeals etc...

Fantastic double act.
12-25-2015 , 04:26 PM
My main problem is were is all the blood that I would assume there would have been ALOT of if the theory about them slitting her throat etc in SA trailer is true.

Even if this was pretty one sided so even then its superclear it should be reasonable doubt and if I understand correctly the burden of proof is on the State here right? It looked more like the defense was in a spot to "have to" prove stat SA didnt do it.

That Len lawyer was A grade scum and Theresas brother really pissed me of.


EDIT:
Really enjoyed this series and I also binge watched this in a 48H period.
12-25-2015 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by younguns87 Making a Murderer
Spoiler:
Seems like without Branden Dassey seemingly made up lie, the prosecutors didn't really have a "story" of how it all went down

I know ~nothing about law in general, but it would appear you need a narrative of what happened and how it happened. They started off saying that he shot her in the house, which they then changed to shot her in the garage, but her blood wasnt found anywhere in the garage either (except for the crushed bullet). And if he shot her in the garage why would you carry the body in her car and not drag her. Why was there no blood on the gun if he was shooting her in that enclosed space. As Thingy mentioned, they never seemed to talk about a motive for the killing either.

So Im just confused on how the prosecutors framed the story to make sense from any perspective. To me, it seems like the only way in which he did commit the crime was if he followed her (or got in her car) and they drove somewhere else, he shot her with his gun from a distance out in the woods somewhere, put her body back in the car and he drove back to his house where he burned the body in the bonfire
If this is the case, how does the bullet fragment end up in the garage?
12-25-2015 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyrnac Making a Murderer
Spoiler:
So the list is:
  • Car (with his blood marks)
  • Bones in the fire pit and burn barrel
  • Car Key (with his DNA, but no other DNA)
  • Bullet with her blood on it

The first could have been planted at any time, close to the main road, some reports of seeing lights and a rumour of cops planting it there.

Second two planted in March many day long searches.

Fourth planted in the November search.

It doesn't seem toooooooo insane, or does it?
The bullet didn't have her blood on it, it had her dna. The DNA expert said there was no visible blood on the bullet.
12-25-2015 , 06:06 PM
What about the detective (Lenk?) lying about what time he arrived at the car yard at? Lol

First of all he said 6ish? Then it went to 2ish during the trial. I mean wtf, even little details like that have to have had you thinking there was something seriously wrong here.

I've finished watching the series n all but will def read up more on it.
12-25-2015 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner09 Making a Murderer
Spoiler:
How come the defense didn't use his alibi from on the day that the murder was taking place? wasn't he talking on the phone with his then gf at the county jail 2 times on that day and from the recording, he didn't sound like a man who committed a heinous crime? and why didn't he took the chance to testify and let the jury know his side of the story?
A lot of times testifying on your behalf in a defense isn't the right move. The requirement of the court is that the prosecution prove you guilty, not that you prove yourself innocent
12-25-2015 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biesterfield Making a Murderer
Spoiler:
Yeah I tilted when he spit that line of "my reputation is being unfairly damaged from an accusation." You do the same thing in your career, you hypocrite
And even more specifically in this case. He 100% poisoned the jury well well before this case started. Him saying anything along the lines of his reputation being ruined is ludicrous
12-25-2015 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe Making a Murderer
He called in AFTER she was reported missing. Still doesn't make any sense as to why he would call in. Possibly confirming plate #?
He called in Nov 3, the missing report was filed on the 5th I believe
12-25-2015 , 07:24 PM
Missing report was filed on the 3rd, the car was found on the 5th. Still really strange though.
12-25-2015 , 07:35 PM
The evidence points to Steven either being the smartest or dumbest murderer of all time if he did it.
12-25-2015 , 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiddyBang Making a Murderer
Len is wow bad. How is he still allowed to practice, ridiculous. Railroading a ******ed kid unbelievable.
As someone else mentioned, this type of "lawyering" is 100% standard for public defenders. You disbar this guy, you have to disbar most of the others.

1.) You probably are bottom 5% talent-wise if you are a career public defender.
2.) The system has to keep grinding, and your workload is impossible. You are measured on closing cases, not on getting acquittals.
3.) It's a small town, and you have to work with the same DAs for decades. Realistically, you are part of THEIR team, playing a kabuki role as a "defense" lawyer.
4.) The vast majority of your clients are guilty morons who have very little chance at trial, and the best you can do is plea them out.
5.) If there's a confession, your job is basically done.

It would take a special sort of person to overcome all of that to help one inbred borderline-******ed kid from a family that everybody hates.

Now... all that said, I still strongly dislike this guy. I'd hope for SOME little spark of responsibility to kick in at SOME point. But it never did. He was going to continue with the kabuki theater no matter what.

And, to be completely fair, the kid WAS convicted, and WOULD have been better off taking the deal, despite the jury seeing the LOL coerced videotaped "confession". It's just the way things are, sadly.

Last edited by BustoPro; 12-25-2015 at 08:42 PM.
12-25-2015 , 08:34 PM
You would think he would tame it down and put in some effort for basically the most media covered case of his entire career.
12-25-2015 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 Making a Murderer
You would think he would tame it down and put in some effort for basically the most media covered case of his entire career.
Yeah, but then he'd have to try to study up on confusing concepts like "innocent until proven guilty" that he'd probably forgetten 20 years ago.
12-25-2015 , 10:00 PM
As far as my take on the whole thing, with the benefit of hindsight it seems like Avery's defense made a huge mistake by focusing so much attention on possible police corruption. (The lawyers themselves said on camera that it was a risky strategy.)

There were so many holes in the case that it seems like they could have just hammered on the shakiness of the whole thing, instead of painting the cops as the bad guys, because that let the prosecution turn around and say "A vote for acquittal is the same as convicting the police of a crime" or however they put it in the closing argument (which isn't true in any case, but probably resonated with the presumably simple people of the jury.)
12-25-2015 , 11:05 PM
I wrote an email to Ken Kratz at kratzlawfirm@gmail.com i was surprised to get a response from him.
12-25-2015 , 11:06 PM
hahaha
12-25-2015 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic Making a Murderer
I wrote an email to Ken Kratz at kratzlawfirm@gmail.com i was surprised to get a response from him.
and?

      
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