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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-23-2015 , 08:19 PM
A crazy thing to consider was that if this was all written in a movie or TV show, everyone would think it was WAY too convoluted and that there is no way it would ever happen in real life.
12-23-2015 , 10:11 PM
Spoiler:
It makes no sense to go through a lot of trouble to clean the garage with bleach and to clean it so good that not one trace of blood is found but not to bother cleaning the car and to hide it with branches.

Avery could have just been unlucky that some random killed the girl and decided a car junk lot would be a good place to dispose of the car. The dirty cops find out Terresa had visited Avery that day and do an illegal search of the property and find the car. Dirty cops then seize the opportunity to pin it all on Steve Avery. These cops likely plant evidence to help their case on guys they think are guilty all the time.

There is basically a whole county of people with motive to frame Avery. They see an inbred hick who got cleared of rape on a technicality and is now going to be super rich.

Now Avery still could have done it but it for sure it didn't go down the way the way cops say it did and the legal system is easily corruptible.

The more I think about it the more I believe he is innocent unless he is the greatest actor ever. Not once did I think he was lying and his lawyers seem convinced of his innocence as well. I have to think if they thought he was guilty they would have tried to distance themselves from this entire situation after Avery was put away.



Here's an interview with Avery's attorneys conducted in 2007 that I found interesting.

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/ne...iked/77708026/
12-23-2015 , 10:40 PM
Spoiler:

Just finished. Obviously the documentary is made to make you feel like he was innocent. And since this is 1 million x more information I had prior to watching the series, I believe he is. Would love to see the state be forced to make a 10 hour film, using similar techniques, to try and sway me the other way.

I definitely dont understand how anyone can watch the confession from brandon and not think he is just saying what people want to hear. That whole "her head, what did you do to it", where he just kept naming adjectives and things you can do to human heads and they get fed up and are like "OK, you shot her, now continue the story". My heart sunk when he asked, after all of that, if he would be able to turn in his project for 6th period/hour, the dude clearly had no idea what was going on. Dropped again when he asked about wrestlemania.

I am still unsure how the whole Cop calling in the license plate wasnt a magic bullet for the defense. unless I got the timeline wrong, he called it in before she was reported missing, and new the model and license.

No matter what Stevens role in her death, the legal system failed here. The county(even after 10 hours i am not going to try and spell), still being involved in the search, Lenk finding the key that magically only has one set of DNA, lenk not reporting in at the site of the car, the confessions, brandons layer len, etc.
12-23-2015 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50yearoldnit Making a Murderer
Len Kachinsky must be the worst ****ing lawyer ever.
There is zero doubt in my mind he just enjoyed the attention of the case. He cracked that stupid ****ing smile everytime he talked about the press or the phone calls he was getting.
12-23-2015 , 10:44 PM
Also there were two very cute news reporters asking questions. demglasses/10
12-23-2015 , 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 Making a Murderer
There is zero doubt in my mind he just enjoyed the attention of the case. He cracked that stupid ****ing smile everytime he talked about the press or the phone calls he was getting.
He was enjoying the attention, thought the case could advance his career, never for a second stopped to consider or care that his client might actually be innocent. Tonnes of poor people in jail simply because they couldn't afford a good lawyer.
12-23-2015 , 11:45 PM
Re: Len

Spoiler:
I nearly spit out my drink the instant he set the kid up to talk to the investigators without an attorney present. That's malpractice.

12-24-2015 , 12:25 AM
Request from Kratz.

Probably a small spoiler.
Spoiler:
Quote:
“I believe there to be 80% to 90% of the physical evidence, the forensic evidence, that ties Steven Avery to this murder never to have been presented in this documentary,” Kratz said.

Kratz believes Netflix should provide an opportunity for his side of the case to be told.


One time NetFlix!
12-24-2015 , 12:33 AM
Spoiler:
I'd vote not guilty, but would bet that SA or one of his brothers did it 1-1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacutainer
12-24-2015 , 12:34 AM
12-24-2015 , 12:36 AM
All,

I'm convinced.....

TTYL, after my lockdown.
12-24-2015 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe Making a Murderer
all of the videos were in youtube 3-4 days ago, don't have too much time or energy to find them again, but r/makingamurderer should have them at front page
12-24-2015 , 12:48 AM
Regarding the jurors :

Spoiler:
Quote:
the panel selected Friday includes a man whose son works for the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department and a man whose wife works for the Manitowoc County clerk of courts office
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29326359.html

lol Fair trial indeed lolol How is this even possible???

12-24-2015 , 01:05 AM
ughhhhh, went to the subreddit and it reminded me of this part:

Spoiler:


"I figured out her password and made up a username that worked"





GET
THE
****
OUT
12-24-2015 , 01:36 AM
Is there a date to set before we stop using spoiler tags? 1st of the year? and just make a warning in the OP that spoilers begin post xxx
12-24-2015 , 01:41 AM
I watched the whole series in less than 24 hours and while disgusting as a current criminal defense attorney I found a lot of the behavior by the police, prosecutors and ultimately the verdicts in a small town in Wisconsin to be unsurprising. The judges also seemed especially terrible although the documentary probably shaded them all in as negative a light as possible.

I interned at a prosecutor's office while in law school and people openly joked about all the defendants being guilty all the time. Ken Kratz is like the far extreme of this mentality but I think it pervades almost every prosecutor's office I have encountered since I have been doing criminal defense the last few years. There are very few prosecutors who look at a case objectively and the vast majority of them have already decided on guilt the moment they read the charge sheet and sign their name on the bottom to officially charge someone with a crime.

Frankly I would be embarrased to present cases with as many holes in them as the ones against SA and BD. At times watching the movie I felt like Ken Kratz probably was embarrased with how it played out start to finish as well. But it was obvious he didn't have a shred of morality to him as is later clearly shown with his drug abuse (almost certainly while sending drug offenders to prison) and sexually harrassing victims in the cases he was prosecuting.
12-24-2015 , 06:00 AM
haven't seen mention of the "hidden" rav4. what a joke that was...a few branches laid against it as if that made it harder to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubord3326 Making a Murderer
Spoiler:
I think he did it in my opinion after finishing the series.
what the ****?
12-24-2015 , 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by younguns87 Making a Murderer
Is there a date to set before we stop using spoiler tags? 1st of the year? and just make a warning in the OP that spoilers begin post xxx
Spoiler:
+1
12-24-2015 , 06:35 AM
I'm guessing anyone who has started to watch this finished it in less then 48hours, but yeah there should be a spoiler date. 1st of the year sounds good.

I'm really hoping others get deeply involved and post updates and whatnot since I probably won't
12-24-2015 , 08:04 AM
Obama s term is coming to an end , I think his best bet is a presidents pardon

As for the series I think he's innocent . The judges seem so biased its sick , the len lychinsky lawyer should be disbarred
12-24-2015 , 10:16 AM
Spoiler:
How come the defense didn't use his alibi from on the day that the murder was taking place? wasn't he talking on the phone with his then gf at the county jail 2 times on that day and from the recording, he didn't sound like a man who committed a heinous crime? and why didn't he took the chance to testify and let the jury know his side of the story?
12-24-2015 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRONICFEVER Making a Murderer
Obama s term is coming to an end , I think his best bet is a presidents pardon

As for the series I think he's innocent . The judges seem so biased its sick , the len lychinsky lawyer should be disbarred
He should clearly be disbarred or at the bare minimum heavily punished by the bar association. Shockingly he is still practing away in the field of criminal defense.

http://sissonlaw.com/attorneys/len-kachinsky/

Then again Kratz was engaged in some truly heinous ethical violations after the Avery case and he is still practicing as well.

http://www.kratzlawfirm.com/
12-24-2015 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaDM Making a Murderer
He should clearly be disbarred or at the bare minimum heavily punished by the bar association. Shockingly he is still practing away in the field of criminal defense.

http://sissonlaw.com/attorneys/len-kachinsky/

Then again Kratz was engaged in some truly heinous ethical violations after the Avery case and he is still practicing as well.

http://www.kratzlawfirm.com/

As a civil case attorney , what do you think his best chance is going forward . Seems like it would take a presidents pardon to get Steven and Brandon out
12-24-2015 , 03:20 PM
Spoiler:
Yeah I tilted when he spit that line of "my reputation is being unfairly damaged from an accusation." You do the same thing in your career, you hypocrite
12-24-2015 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRONICFEVER Making a Murderer
As a civil case attorney , what do you think his best chance is going forward . Seems like it would take a presidents pardon to get Steven and Brandon out
Disclaimer: I don't do any appeals work and probably know just barely more than the typical layman. My understanding is that their state appeals are essentially done barring some new evidence being uncovered. That leaves federal options which essentially our outlined at the very end of the documentary. President Obama could pardon them and there is a change.org petition you can already go sign to get his attention.

My honest take on the case is that they may have been guilty (Although I think it very very unlikely Brendan was guilty). However there is a very high probability that there was a lot of wrongdoing by the police/prosectuors. Lenk is clearly a scumbag and the fact that essentially all of the key evidence was found by him means at a bare minimum there is reasonable doubt as to the probative value of that evidence and Stevens guilt.

In no particular order I think there are a whole host of things (there are so many I am sure I will forget some in this list) that raise reasonable doubt in the cases either at the time or in retrospect.

1)Why leave a car right next to the crusher with your blood in it when you have a perfectly good crusher.
2)Why meticulously clean the trailer/garage but not clean the car you allegedly transported her in
3)Why leave the burned bones in clear view right next to your house.
4)How is none of Brendan's DNA anywhere in the crime scene.
5)How does Manitoc County find all the evidence when they were explicity told by the "authorities" to step aside.
6)What about the deleted voicemails.
7)Why were none of the people who were also possible suspects including the other Darrey bro, Brenden's stepdad, the brother, the ex-bf, the roommate never investigated.
8)Why were there two conflicting theories of what happened used to convict them both if they actually had an airtight case.
9)The convenience of this case ending the SA lawsuit and saving the county.
10)The tampered with blood from the previous case.
11)The key magically appearing after many many searches.
12)How does a 7-3-2 notguilty/guilty/unsure turn into a unanimous decision. That from my understanding almost never happens.
13)The horrific way that Brenden's investigation was handled from both the original defense attorney, and the investigators.
14)There was no motive.
15)Colburn knowing the make and model of the car before she was reported missing.
16)The phone records of Brenden and Steve.
17)The bias of the judges.
18)Blood in the car but no fingerprints.
19)The people closest to her did not report her missing for 4 days. If my roommate doesn't show up for like a day or two and doesn't answer phone/text I probably don't wait 4 days to do anything.
20)All of the lying and inconsistencies on the stand by Lenk and Colburn.
21)The fact the Manitoc Co. inbreds who obviously don't like the Averys got to be the jury
22)The fact two people on the jury had direct relations to the Manitoc Co. sheriff's department.

That being said it is obvious SA was no saint and its certainly possible he did it. I just don't think the prosecutions "case" was anywhere close to passing the reasonable doubt standard. Brenden's case is much more egrigious as I think the odds of him doing it or having anything to do with it being less than 5%. He is very clearly close to being mentally ******ed, was scared and completely susceptible to the people around him influencing him. Telling him that he would be fine if he said what they wanted to was what made him say it, not because it was the truth.

      
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