They found evidence, but there was enough to convict SA without their evidence. The blood in the rav 4 and her remains on his property burned the night after SA had a bonfire would have been enough to convict him.

Also, no I do not think that is motivation enough to take TH key from god knows where and plant it in his trailer or to find one of avery's bullets and rub TH dna on it and plant it in a garage especially when these two have never been accused of anything like this before.

How can anyone after reading zellners motion think that she did this for anything other than publicity?

RH is the killer.. Why?

Oh because on a police report it says his name is ryan kilgras.. So he must have given a false name, forget the fact that all the other police reports say Ryan Hilgras. This one report must be him giving a fake name and not someone misunderstanding or mispelling his name.

oh because someone said that TH was harrased by one of her exes, lets forget the fact that she didn't say which ex.

oh because SA all of the sudden remembers someone driving off right after he cut his finger and bleed in his sink.. Yea, ok. So someone snuck into your house and stole your blood before it clotted and planted it in the rav 4? haha.

Oh and brain fingerprinting.

I think it was decided Poorskillz is related to Griesbach in some way. I assume Fraleyeight is related to TH now since I assume he has married into the family after his tenacious stalking.

It warms my heart to see two of the biggest proponents of a broken criminal justice system still plugging away all this time later. They are Judicial Status Quo Warriors and there is something to be said for that.

At least you don't have to rely on pure incompetence by the police department to explain this away, oh wait you do. You literally have to take on the fact that the police were incompetent in every single way.

AGAIN... their incompetence absolutely means things should be handled differently. A police officer who can't properly write down a name as part of an investigation? Are you serious? It is what likely happens but that is because they have demonstrated complete incompetence all along the way and we should not be locking people up for life on the basis of grossly incompetent investigations.

Any evidence found by LEO that were specifically told to not be part of the investigation should be ruled inadmissible.

They could use the evidence you mentioned to get their conviction. A lot harder.

That stance is awesome from people posting about griesbach new book or random article while at the same time depicting Zellner as a promotion whore.

Are you serious? He is a 16-year old kid who is in the bottom 12%. They could have had him admit to killing JFK. He didn't even recall that she was supposedly shot 10 times until the investigators told him. With the promise they would be there for him. Sad.

He scored above 12% like that's good lololololololol

Griesbach has written three books trying to profit off Avery's troubles. Plus he does all kinds of interviews as a self-appointed expert (on top of opinion pieces).

I suppose he's a bit put out that Zellner has made a name for herself serving justice and setting innocent people free.

Blaming Brendan for the cops working hour after hour to frame him and Steven is a lot like folks who blame the little kids who get molested.

At least he s starting to shift into the investigation of 2005 was a cluster****, but not enough to warrant a doubt.
I suspect that the closer avery will be to freedom the more angry at the lack of proffessionnalism griesbach will be when covering 2005.
And book 4 will be critisizing ken kratz and the investigator reminding people that he had nothing to do with that mess.

Maybe someone's a bit jealous of those scores?

There was rightwinger Dan O'Donnell who in his rebuttal to 'Making a Murderer' suggested an IQ score of 70 was 'normal'. Maybe it is - for his fan base.

Yes, give cops 100 hours with any kid and they will get a confession to whatever you want. I bet you are ok with water-boarding confessions too.

That's a career exploiting the murder of an innocent young woman - a book every two years criticizing what he wrote in the last book he published.

Probably accurate

Thats what you take from that? Not that zellner is trying to set a guilty man free? The best attorney at exonerating the innocent, putting in hundreds of hours into this and look at the bs she created and you can't admit the man is guilty?

So what if the cops jotted down his name wrong, that doesn't equal incompetence. Killgras vs hillgras... Ya, fire that cop guys lol.

False, and what stalking are you talking about? Me being involved in a group that had family members and friends of hers in the group? That isn't stalking. I didn't go looking for them, it just so happens that all her family and friends agree with the side of the fence I landed on, IE: Avery is guilty.

Who told them not to be part of the investigation?

God.

Since youre not going to answer seriously ill tell you. they did. They told themselves they wouldn't. So unless Kratz as the prosecutor has a problem with it or unless a judge says the evidence must be dismissed because there is bias I am afraid what you're saying is wrong.

So you seriously think it is ok when they publicly say they are not going to be involved since it would look horrible, yet they are actively involved and you are surprised that it looks horrible?

They rightfully knew there would be a cloud of suspicion over any evidence they uncovered. Yet, here we are with all the evidence uncovered by people that said they were not going to be involved.

it's very telling as to what kind of person you are that you would hold a mentally challenged 16 y.o. to things he was coerced into saying, yet don't do same for things KK or LEO, CHOSE to say

Ethically or morally? No I do not think its "ok" but its not illegal and you are saying that the evidence should have been thrown out. On what grounds?

1) I think youre using mentally challenged loosely

2) I don't think he was coerced, Ive posted a lot on this but there are several details he knew about the crime that he shouldn't have. The most telling is knowing where she was shot. He was also given false positives to which he passed. It was suggested to him that TH has a tattoo on her stomach (she doesn't) and he said he doesn't remember one, he was even pressed further "you sure, you sure you don't remember the tatto" etc. And he still said that he didn't remember her having a tatto.

3) This is a false equivalency. BD told police he helped rape and torture a woman. What KK did was tell the press that manitwoc is only going to be involved in the investigation as support, which was mostly true. Most of the efforts in the case were conducted by the neighboring county. Lenk and Colborn were there because they were evidence techs which was lacking in both counties.

1) cmon man you didn't even try

2) some experts are now viewing this as text book coercion so we'll call it undecided.

but really, that's the most telling thing for you? interesting.
i think others could view this as not much at all. he was tired, he was consfused, and he said he said he didn't remember which I'm sure was his go to response. it would be way more compelling if he said, no, there was no tattoo.

3) there was no physical evidence a rape occurred. just the fanciful story they told to sway public opinion, that the rape you mean?
as to the other press conference. why even bother to announce they would not be involved in the main investigation if there was no conflict of interest as you continually suggest?
why announce it but then not follow through?
if you think them finding most, if not all key evidence is just support then ok.

i think there was a very visible (to most) conflict of interest, and it was absolutely necessary for an independent investigation to occur.

instead of questioning the integrity of those involved who display continual incompetence/dishonesty at every opportunity, you seem to enjoy making excuses for every mis step they took