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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

06-21-2017 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Not Avery though convicted of attempting to kidnap a female at gunpoint & who has multiple allegations of rape & proven behaviour of threatening women as well as affidavits (considering you supporters put so much stock in them) from prisoners saying how Avery wished to rape & torture women. No motive from Avery at all, no siree bob...



As to the rest of your post, no evidence for it despite your fervent passionate belief in a frame up.





Yes. Normal sane reasonable rational people anyway. Aka not Avery & Dassey's fanboys/girls

.





Investigators go where the evidence leads them & in this case it led them to Avery & Dassey and was sufficient to arrest, charge try and convict them in separate courts.



So based on this and the fact that there's no evidence for your theories, yeah both are guilty & the only ones doubting it are people who can't assess evidence correctly & for whom logic is an alien concept.

Fanboy of SA/BD? I don't know them or have any idea of what they did or didn't do. I wasn't there.

I am a fanboy of an impartial investigation and prosecution. And when I head a sheriff's department will recuse themselves from an investigation, I believe they will really play no active part. Call me crazy.
06-21-2017 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
Fanboy of SA/BD? I don't know them or have any idea of what they did or didn't do. I wasn't there.

I am a fanboy of an impartial investigation and prosecution. And when I head a sheriff's department will recuse themselves from an investigation, I believe they will really play no active part. Call me crazy.
Okay then. I'm sorry for intimating you're a fanboy so. I simply don't share your reasoning or belief about the manitowoc pd being corrupt or your apparent evaluation of evidence or your criteria for what you consider weak evidence or your concept of what you consider reasonable doubt or your idea of an unfair trial or unfair due process or unfair investigation or rights violations or coercion. Nor do I consider it remotely plausible that LE framed Avery & Dassey within the context. Is all. So we're just gonna have to agree to disagree I guess.

Hopefully KZ will sort it out with her brain fingerprinting "evidence"...
06-21-2017 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
Fanboy of SA/BD? I don't know them or have any idea of what they did or didn't do. I wasn't there.

I am a fanboy of an impartial investigation and prosecution. And when I head a sheriff's department will recuse themselves from an investigation, I believe they will really play no active part. Call me crazy.
For some reason corpus can't wrap his head around the idea that people might have a legitimate difference of opinion about a controversial matter.
06-21-2017 , 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Ya like two separate juries not to mention trial & appellate courts
Yeah, two separate theories about how the crime 'must have' occurred with two different casts of characters involved.

Honestly - if the prosecution doubts its own theory so profoundly that it changes theories from one day to the next, it's difficult to see how anyone capable of rational thought can avoid reasonable doubt about their case.
06-21-2017 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
Why was Avery never charged with this? It has been years. You're suggesting somehow if he gets released from the TH murder he will then be charged with a rape from many years ago? That makes no sense.
Threats to prosecute Steven for other alleged offenses if he is released again due to a false conviction?

Sounds like they aren't very interested in justice so much as pursuing some sort of vendetta against Steven.
06-21-2017 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
Why was Avery never charged with this? It has been years. You're suggesting somehow if he gets released from the TH murder he will then be charged with a rape from many years ago? That makes no sense.
Avery was never charged because this happened around the same time as TH. The victims statement was recorded and several eye witness statements were recorded but avery was ultimately never charged because the evidence for the TH case was too overwhelming to drag this victim through the mud for someoen who was about to spend the rest of his life in prison.
06-21-2017 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Threats to prosecute Steven for other alleged offenses if he is released again due to a false conviction?

Sounds like they aren't very interested in justice so much as pursuing some sort of vendetta against Steven.
Avery wasn't convicted due to a false confession. BD statement was never even used in the avery trial.
06-21-2017 , 10:07 PM
Lenk and colborn were testifying to Kocourek not following up on the other county calling colborn and telling him that they may have someone falsely arrested. Lenk and colborn never said this happened all colborn testifed too was giving the sherrif the information and all lenk testified too was taking colborn to file the report. Neither of these man were accused of any wrong doing in the 1985 case.
06-21-2017 , 10:08 PM
Its been awhile since I looked up information about this case but it appears pam didn't say earl told her where to start looking, only to look on foot. All that aside, the place she started still makes sense. Its the first gap between the office and the cars parked by the office. Its where i would start.
06-22-2017 , 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Avery wasn't convicted due to a false confession. BD statement was never even used in the avery trial.
Yes, that is very odd.

I guess the prosecution didn't have any confidence in the so-called 'confession' they went to such trouble to create.

Another reason rational people have reasonable doubt about this cluster****.
06-22-2017 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Its been awhile since I looked up information about this case but it appears pam didn't say earl told her where to start looking, only to look on foot. All that aside, the place she started still makes sense. Its the first gap between the office and the cars parked by the office. Its where i would start.
Thank you for withdrawing the claim about Earl supposedly telling PoG where to begin her search.
06-22-2017 , 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Yes, that is very odd.

I guess the prosecution didn't have any confidence in the so-called 'confession' they went to such trouble to create.

Another reason rational people have reasonable doubt about this cluster****.
It has nothing to do with confidence or lack thereof. It's because Dassey refused to testify and his video-taped confession would be inadmissable against Avery as hearsay.

They had enough evidence without it to prove Avery's guilt.
06-22-2017 , 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Avery wasn't convicted due to a false confession. BD statement was never even used in the avery trial.
I guess you didn't see the KK press conference that the jurors also very likely saw prior to trial that likely swayed their view going in.
06-22-2017 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
I guess you didn't see the KK press conference that the jurors also very likely saw prior to trial that likely swayed their view going in.
I guess you don't know about the jury selection process aka voir dire, nor did you read the transcripts of the jury selection process in Steven's trial - here are excerpts from what each selected juror had to say.
06-22-2017 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
I guess you don't know about the jury selection process aka voir dire, nor did you read the transcripts of the jury selection process in Steven's trial - here are excerpts from what each selected juror had to say.
Well given that I'm a lawyer I am quite familiar with that.

To think it had no effect is silly. Jurors may say they weren't swayed by it, or he's innocent until proven guilty, but the fact remains, they saw it. In the back of their minds they wonder why Dassey isn't testifying. Oh because he doesn't want to sewer his uncle. The conference is always going to be a thought in the back of their minds. Unfortunately it can't be unseen.

And unfortunately that's just how the legal system works.
06-22-2017 , 09:44 AM
Quote:
To think it had no effect is silly. Jurors may say they weren't swayed by it, or he's innocent until proven guilty, but the fact remains, they saw it. In the back of their minds they wonder why Dassey isn't testifying. Oh because he doesn't want to sewer his uncle. The conference is always going to be a thought in the back of their minds. Unfortunately it can't be unseen.
Even if we assume there's a large effect, you are severely misguided in attributing the effect to the press conference rather than to the actual fact that Brendan confessed to helping Steven rape, murder, and mutilate a young woman.

In your haste to reply, you must have not read the excerpts, or perhaps missed the fact that most jurors said or gave the impression that they hadn't even seen the news conference.

The fact remains that whether or not there was a press-conference, the details that Brendan confessed to would have soon quickly spread just the same. By the time of the press conference, the criminal complaint was part of the public record, as it should be. As a lawyer, you should know this.

It is not the news conference that would potentially always be a thought in the back of their minds (especially since most seemingly did not even view it) - it was Brendan confessing.
06-22-2017 , 11:37 AM
WOW, just when I thought you couldn't be any more obtuse.

Carry on....
06-22-2017 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Okay then. I'm sorry for intimating you're a fanboy so. I simply don't share your reasoning or belief about the manitowoc pd being corrupt or your apparent evaluation of evidence or your criteria for what you consider weak evidence or your concept of what you consider reasonable doubt or your idea of an unfair trial or unfair due process or unfair investigation or rights violations or coercion. Nor do I consider it remotely plausible that LE framed Avery & Dassey within the context. Is all. So we're just gonna have to agree to disagree I guess.
It is the sheriff's department and not the PD.

Well, there was an allegation of corruption in the false conviction.

It is not about weak evidence. It is evidence collected from personnel that were SPECIFICALLY not supposed to be collecting evidence due to perception of self-interest. That is corrupted evidence.
06-22-2017 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Yes, that is very odd.

I guess the prosecution didn't have any confidence in the so-called 'confession' they went to such trouble to create.

Another reason rational people have reasonable doubt about this cluster****.
Wow what? Just admit that the confession had nothing to do with his conviction.
06-22-2017 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
I guess you didn't see the KK press conference that the jurors also very likely saw prior to trial that likely swayed their view going in.
At this point they had

her remains in avery's yard, her items in a burn barrell just outside his house, evidence that she was last at averys before she went missing, her vehicle found on his familys yard with his blood inside the vehicle, her keys in his trailer and a taped confession from his nephew..

Ya I think its time to wrap it up at that point and let the public know they have the guy that did this so they can sleep safely.
06-22-2017 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkasigh Making a Murderer
It has nothing to do with confidence or lack thereof. It's because Dassey refused to testify and his video-taped confession would be inadmissable against Avery as hearsay.

They had enough evidence without it to prove Avery's guilt.
It tells us a lot that the prosecution couldn't even present a single coherent theory of the crime.

If they had doubts about what happened, everyone should.
06-22-2017 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Wow what? Just admit that the confession had nothing to do with his conviction.
I can't admit something that isn't true.

The coerced statements from Brendan were widely publicized before Steven's trial.
06-22-2017 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
I can't admit something that isn't true.

The coerced statements from Brendan were widely publicized before Steven's trial.
So you're really saying that BD confession had a bigger impact than all the other stuff? Vicitms remains found on his property, her vehicle found with his blood inside and her seeing him right before she disappeared? You are really telling me you believe BD confession was the biggest factor?
06-22-2017 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
So you're really saying that BD confession had a bigger impact than all the other stuff? Vicitms remains found on his property, her vehicle found with his blood inside and her seeing him right before she disappeared? You are really telling me you believe BD confession was the biggest factor?
No.

Where did you get that idea?

      
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