I'm wondering if some people making judgements ITT even watch all 3 of the shows.

Sopranos was so much than what this one reduced it to. One huge thing he neglects is how it deeply examined family dynamics over many years. Both normal and dysfunctional. Way more in depth than bb did. We saw Aj grow so muchore than eating breakfast. And Carmella & Meadow

The Shield is under-rated

The Shield had one of the best endings, those last 2 episodes were elite

I wish BB was a full uninterrupted hour like the HBO shows were.

5 seasons of 1-hour BB isn't 5 seasons of 1 hour the Wire.

This. A million times this. Cultural significance of TV shows, in my experience, is not a huge topic of discussion for most people.

Iggy, it IS super nitty and you might be the only one in the world that feels the way you do. You think WAAAAY too much when you watch TV. I actually feel bad that you're not able to watch TV and just enjoy it instead of dissecting every single little thing about it. That must suck.

I can't imagine there are many shows that you enjoy if Breaking Bad caused so many problems for you.

In a post-Lost world, would Lynch be accepted? Lost's creators did a lot of bad work over the years in conditioning audiences to expect only scientifically plausible, "logical", unambiguous resolutions to all plot threads. Of course it didn't even deliver on that itself, but folks now seem to consider those ideas gospel.

Yea it really sucks that some people do a lot of thinking about art.

Not entirely certain if this is sarcasm or not but if not, I completely agree with you, it does suck. If it is sarcasm, we have a different world view. Art/TV/Movies/Music is entertainment and should be treated as such. Even if iggy's critiques are well founded (i'm not so sure) BB and TV in general is about entertainment and BB did entertainment better than any other show I've seen.

I'm not smart enough to explain it but I think you're missing the point, Iggy.

BB excelled at storytelling. One way they accomplished this was by ignoring realism when it suited them. Think of it as science fiction, if you have to. It is Vince Gilligan, after all.

I completely disagree BB didn't stay true to itself in the later seasons. Ironically, (and I think s2 gets *way* too much hate) the plane crash was the thing that strayed too far.

I think BB is clearly the best storytelling we've ever seen on the small screen, probably in film, too. I'm not sure that's hyperbole.

Whether BB stands the test of time depends on whether the above stays true. It could be that BB is benefiting from being the first of its kind (a great show that got ~consistently better and had no bad episodes).

Because of shows like sopranos, the wire and deadwood(it's criminal to leave deadwood out of this discussion), we could have dozens of shows like BB in the coming decades.

BB is on par with these shows because despite lacking their realism or depth of character development or commentary on human nature/society, it was successful at what it was, imo.

Sopranos had bad episodes or subpar seasons.

The wire s5 (which also gets way too much hate) didn't fully flesh out its villains and the mcnulty plot stretched realism slightly too far.

Deadwood got cancelled (its only flaw, imo).

I hear mad men had a bad season late in the game.

I'm behind on boardwalk empire but I believe it's a candidate for this tier, if it gets any better.

Rectify had a 6 episode first season but if quality holds it will be in the GOAT tier, I'm sure of it.

I Don't know if the current viewers would get Lynch. By that I mean not get him and be OK with that.

HBO's Rome definately deserves some consideration

Before the Sopranos must see TV was half hour sit-coms(Cheers, Seinfeld, and Friends). Even Warren Buffett(82-years old) says Breaking Bad is the best TV ever. I believe you are wrong.

it just depends how you frame it. breaking bad is put together as well as any tv drama in history, but it doesn't have the same gravitas as sopranos or the wire.

if you're looking at it from a literature type of way, where you want a great show to say something profound about the human condition and what life is like at this point in time, you're gonna lean towards the wire.

if you value having changed and influenced the medium as an artform then clearly its the sopranos.

if you just want to see a kickass story told then you'll go for breaking bad, in spite of it not really having any lasting substance or message whatsoever.

but it's like trying to decide whether the best film of all time is to kill a mockingbird, the godfather, or pulp fiction - a lot of people will choose pulp fiction even though it doesn't have a message beyond being fun and dramatic and awesome, and your choice ultimately says more about your values than anything objective anyway because they are all top notch.

^^^Ding ding ding

Just as a fwiw, I was already aware that The Wire was used in several universities before replying. Still don't think it matters. The audience is too niche, and the impact too small.

In 1993 the American Film Institute polled 1,500 film notables. They chose Citizen Kane as the best film ever.

Great post by Iggy. I think he explained extremely well how a lot of people who don't think BB is near GOAT contention feel. A+

Well I felt the same way as Iggy and I wasn't overly dissecting the show. Most of the things are obvious. For example when Walt gives up his money, there is no thinking required to realize that was ridiculous and out of character. Pretty much everything Iggy listed was pretty obvious if you are following the story closely, and immediately after they happen they were " oh come on " moments.

Not nitty at all for people to expect the characters to stay consistent and true.

You should be docked points for the "it's all subjective!" formulation anyway.

It's the trademark war cry of those who seek to discredit the act of value-judgment criticism, usually in defense of whatever critically panned garbage they are a fan of. As such it's grown to have harmful signalling effects.

Kinda surprised 8 people think GOT is greatest drama already? Maybe you read book and know whats coming? Seem to early or maybe haven't seen a lot of other stuff.

Some people might not like shows about drugs and drug dealers and current life, but love stories about dragons and and ice monsters and political intrigue.


Remember, it's all subjective.

O I don't care just found it interesting.

To be fair, I actually have 2 modes when I watch TV: brain on and brain off. If a show's still good in brain on mode, I enjoy it 10x more, but I'm also able to enjoy shows with brain off.

True Blood, I always watch with brain off (usually try to smoke a bowl first too). Since Breaking Bad started off so great, and I enjoyed the first 2-3 seasons so much with brain on, I never switched to the other mode with it. Mad Men, I loved the first 5 seasons with brain on and thought they were genius, really hated the start of the 6th season to the point that I wasn't even enjoying the show, and then just decided to switch to brain off mode when they did the amphetamine episode and started enjoying it again, even if I couldn't enjoy it the way I did before.

Stim, how committed are you to your "position"?

If 1 ******ed person thought that a framed piece of poo was the greatest art of all time, then is that piece of **** actually just as great a work of art as the greatest works of Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Monet, Picasso, Van Gogh, Dali, Cezanne, etc?

Well, Pulp Fiction probably didn't make that list because it wasn't, you know, made yet.