I actually didn't mind the Alien stuff, but I hated a lot of the directing and editing of this episode. Arkin directed it, you'll recognize him right away:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0035060/?ref_=tt_ov_dr

It's the only episode of the season he directed. I found those split screen scenes to be super clumsy most of the time, and often completely unnecessary.

amazing

also I loved the book and narration. for those that don't know, Hawley has referenced this "book" before as their inspiration for the show - he had imagined that somewhere out there there was a book with all the True Crime stories in it, and each season of Fargo was a chapter. Interesting that it went back to 1825, that is now the earliest one of these seasons could start. Though I can't see them going back that far (due to how prevalent 20th century upper midwest sensibilities are to the core of the show) but with these guys you never know

Been reading the discussion itt, fwiw my 2 cents:

This seasons great but imo doesn't come close to the magic S1 had. I think the major problem is that there is way too little focus on character development and the show has suffered from it. There are also too many groups that need individual focus for a 1-season-show. It's cool that pretty much everyone is getting killed off but I don't care for the majority of these characters. S1 was fantastic because of the focus on the 2 main characters and all the crazy **** around it, this season lacks its main characters.

The UFO thing was fine tbh, it's exactly the same type of thing as the ridiculous escape sequence in TD S1. It wasn't that big of a deal in the TD thread, not sure why it's here. I agree it was kind of a cheap way to end the scene, but whatever, not a big deal.

S1 vs S2, I do agree with the idea that S1 was actually tenser and I might have even liked it better. But, it's just different - it was a deep dive into a couple characters vs the wider universe building they are doing this year. Mike Milligan is a "main" character and he has barely been in the last 2 episodes.

I do remember that from season 1.

Bolded is a drastic conclusion that I'm just gonna go straight ahead and conclude is wrong haha - I've enjoyed plenty of tv-series and continue to do so.

I should say that I've noticed various postings from you on mainly one show that I like where I sought out its thread (The Americans) and I just have a feeling that we're in completely different places when it comes to enjoying or not enjoying a tv series and total disagreement and uncommon ground is to be expected.

thanks.

some things were a little incoherent I think:

here I didn't mean the totally obvious that lack of depth in story and character is a bad thing but more that violence and constant killings, unless you're going comedy route or more absurd than what this has legs to support, that something needs to be at stake in story or with characters. Before and after action.

I was actually thinking about her and her earlier shown characteristics I guess when Betsy collapsed/died and she was there with the daughter but that's not something the show was interested in.

Also, the youngest Gerhardt was a pretty good character I thought and the tense scenes with him, Noreen and Ed at the butcher among the best in the show. I had not checked out of Fargo back then.

This time for me this has been overshadowed by other overwhelming problems I'm having with the show so this is further down the list, but yeah generally the stronger the better focus on fewer characters and often one dominant lead is definitely a common thread in the series that I've liked the best and really a common thread on most of the most impactful tv series in this era of tv. The examples being obvious and brought forward plenty all the time.

Then there is Game of Thrones which would my best example of a show battling against the huge cast where so often so many things said and unsaid have to happen in single scenes going from character to character and place to another place.

Bjørn, my point is you're complaining about a lack of conventional narrative in a show that is not only set in the Coen universe, but has been blatantly wearing its absurdity on its sleeve from the beginning of the season.

I read a recap of this past episode "the Castle" on a blog where the writer made the comparison to the Kafka book of the same name. There are actually a lot of good parallels. Interesting food for thought.

http://www.fetchland.com/fargo-seaso...or-the-castle/

S2 has a ton of characters, and almost all of them are extremely well portrayed and very entertaining to watch, but I don't really care that much about what happens to them.

I also liked S1's story better. S1 just felt fresher and kept me on my toes/surprised me more. S2, I feel like it's been done before, and better.

Direction, dialogue, acting, are all top notch. But, it's just the 'magic' is not quite there, I agree.

Those against a tv series held up against a movie have a valid point but what can you do when this episode is reached up on to a pedestal made up by tiny straws (and that is probably not a correct English sentence) by comparing it to Kafka's The Castle and I just happened to watch Haneke's Das Schloss adaptation (tv movie actually so there) when it was on tv here last year. I'll just say that Fargo season 2 is nothing like that...

"Kafkask" here (kafkaesque) is used to describe things all the time, when not latched on to movies, usually someone struggling with crushing bureaucracy, and one dumbass authority briefly (the season 1 police officer running into a dumb cop-wall time and time again was more excruciating and a prolonged theme) preventing a man from doing good work can't possibly make for convincing Kafka. I mean soon after he just turns the car around and drives back - as I recall - not much labyrinthine in that at all.

Something like Brazil (another movie sorry) must be the most obvious Kafka on screen (how he is perceived anyway and I've seen the Kafka translator of his work here argue that Kafka isn't really kafkaesque apart from mainly Der Prozess), Fargo if it really does have depth, meaning, layers I can't see it being more than very loosely connected Kafka.

Posting your very obscure scene about a very esoteric book does not really accomplish this... at all.

It's also ignoring the fact that the absurd and absurdity are different thing.

It's also (poorly) addressing a small part of one complaint.



And regardless, no one is arguing that the writer doesn't have the right to have a UFO appear in the story to be a deus ex machina. I (and I think the others) are arguing that the UFO was just a poor decision by the writers. Adaptation film spoilers just in case someone hasn't seen it:


But anyways, if the UFO and the cabin scene were done well, even with the poor choices made, I would have enjoyed it. However, I don't think they were done well, they were done quite poorly. Like I've said before this story is filled with a lot of cliche, only somewhat expanded on characters. (not a complaint, the show does these characters very very well) When the writers decided to leave behind a lot of these characters and their plots and put the entirity of the show on the back of just a few of these characters for two episodes it didn't work. The characters weren't strong enough to hold the show on their own and the episodes suffered.

Bjorn, possibly the stupidity in how many bodies are stupidly being piled up by stupidity?

As a side note, I felt that episode was the worst directed in the series, and was really surprised it was directed by Adam Arkin who I think is an outstanding TV director.

This

How is Camus esoteric? I was forced to read The Plague in high school.

UFO haters: better or worse than the Breaking Bad plane crash?

Not a UFO hater but worse than the plane crash.

Easily worse.

Have people considered that it probably was a police helicopter? Or is that not likely given the timeframe?

It's not likely considering the population density of the area, but I'm pretty sure police helicopters existed in 1979. The main reason it is unlikely is because the showrunner has pretty clearly said, "Yes, it's a UFO."

Way worse.

I'm not denying that it is a UFO from the perspective of the story we're seeing. That doesn't mean that it was a UFO in reality? They made it quite clear that the story portrayed is not a representation of the facts but someone their version of the story.

The term UFO means it is an unidentified flying object not necessarily an object from another planet. Many people in the Midwest claimed to see UFOs back in the late 70's.

The 1977 movie Close Encounters Of The Third Kind spurred many sightings.

Correct. It seems intentionally ambiguous.

You can interpret the UFO as a literal deus ex machina where in the Fargo universe an alien presence: 1) appeared to Rye outside the Waffle Hut, causing him to stand in the middle of the road and get hit by Peggy's car, setting in motion a whole sequence of events, and 2) appeared outside the motel, saving Lou from getting Beared and saving Peggy and Ed from getting Hanzeed. There is also a third piece of UFO evidence (Hanzee losing time in the Waffle Hut), which seems to have had no effect on that character, whereas the two UFO appearances had major effects on the characters involved.

You can also interpret it as a metaphor or figment of an unreliable narrator's imagination where in the Fargo universe the UFO doesn't actually exist, or there is some other more realistic explanation for it than an alien spacecraft.

Now that it's been brought up in Brian's post, the case can be made that the UFO/aliens are out to get the Gerhardts. First, it caused Rye to get killed. Then it took up Hanzee. Several episodes later, Hanzee goes on a massive killing spree including Dodd. During the time after Dodd's death to the re-appearance of the UFO, he had obviously planned to betray and kill (or cause the deaths) of the rest of the Gerhardt family. The one person Hanzee couldn't have had any grudge against was Bear, who was "killed" by the distraction of the UFO's arrival. So, it's quite possible the UFO/aliens planted the idea of destruction of the Gerhardt family into Hanzee while he was taken up. That singular shot is plenty to make the whole aliens vs. Gerhardts story believable inside the universe as shown.

It probably won't take much of a leap to have Hanzee clean up the rest of the KC mafia problem before his end or leaving. I think it's quite possible Hanzee could ride off into the sunset, though I doubt that will happen.

Alternative explanation:

Yeah, Gerhardt-hating aliens is definitely a possibility. I'd prefer to interpret that more metaphorically as the Gerhardts blaming their failures on supernatural forces instead of Dodd being a colossal idiot and their other assorted human frailties.

(Aside: As best I can remember, the only thing Dodd has done right is not wanting his daughter around to hear business talk- which was overruled by Floyd. Of course, that's only due to his knee-jerk misogyny, not because he realizes his daughter is capable of selling out the family.)

You could come up with a host of different interpretations of the UFO. Really the only invalid one I can think of is that the writers wrote themselves into a corner and thought "Herp derp aliens!" The alien/UFO trope has been an ongoing theme this season, beginning with Rye in the first episode and continuing with the War of the Worlds voiceover and the UFO talk from a rando to Lou.