Atlanta Braves: Win More Games Than The Hawks? - Page 353 - Single-Team Season Threads -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I still don't get why that stuff takes maturity or experience to get good at. This **** ain't that complicated ffs. And the coaches are always there to help. meh.

I hear you, but for a 1B it's not that high on the developmental priority list - young 1Bs in the minors are much more likely to be working hard on developing physically, fine tuning (or in some cases revolutionizing) their swings, and learning how to work the strike zone. If a 19 year old with potential spends his time getting good at 1b defense but can't hit then he's not going to make the majors, but if he can hit but can't field he's still going to progress.

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08-23-2011 , 04:44 PM

#8802

Pwn_Master

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For what it is worth, capitolavenueclub.com, who relies on advanced stats to analyze the Braves more than anybody, happened to tweet this today:

CapitolAvenue Peter
I do know that if you just looked at the Braves' 28th in UZR rank in 2011 and concluded they're a bad defensive team you'd be wrong.

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08-23-2011 , 04:53 PM

#8803

hard2tel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mosdef

Yea that's a good point. But i still have a hard time believing that something as simple as positioning hasn't already been almost perfected by any 1B that plays at this level..even if it's a 21-22 year old rookie.

I can see how footwork and range etc can always be improved. I do remember a couple times when Freddie was a little lost with his feet at the bag.

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08-23-2011 , 04:53 PM

#8804

C-Viggity

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hard2tel

I still don't get why that stuff takes maturity or experience to get good at. This **** ain't that complicated ffs. And the coaches are always there to help. meh.

You don't get why it takes experience to play defense at the major league level? Really?

There's a lot of reasons why a rookie will suffer defensively when he comes in to the league

No experience with the teammates, no history with athletes of that caliber, guys hit it harder, more accurately, bunt better, are smarter players, etc etc

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08-23-2011 , 04:54 PM

#8805

C-Viggity

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserBeamTheCat

Yep, he's been pretty damn solid. I can think of several great picks, stretches, and even a dive or two by Freeman that have won us games.

I know you guys can be crazy loyal to the stats but I trust very little more than my eyes. My eyes say that Freddie is nowhere close to a liability at first. There's got to be something missing in those defensive metrics.

I also don't thiiiink I buy that the Brewers overall defense is better than the Braves CURRENTLY but I don't watch enough Brewers baseball to know for sure.

You could benefit yourself by learning a little bit about baseball statistics. They are the most accurate and telling of any sport

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08-23-2011 , 04:55 PM

#8806

tdomeski

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there is just no way the brewers are a better defensive team than the Braves. i'm of the same opinion of the brewer fan itt i think they are one of the worst defensively in the NL.

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08-23-2011 , 04:55 PM

#8807

hard2tel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

You don't get why it takes experience to play defense at the major league level? Really?

There's a lot of reasons why

We were talking about positioning, not defense in general.

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08-23-2011 , 04:57 PM

#8808

C-Viggity

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I know people don't trust UZR, but god it sure is better than conventional fielding stats like errors and assists

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08-23-2011 , 04:59 PM

#8809

C-Viggity

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A lot of our poor fielding stats are surely reflected by our CF/LF rotation for a lot of the year

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08-23-2011 , 05:00 PM

#8810

tdomeski

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

I know people don't trust UZR, but god it sure is better than conventional fielding stats like errors and assists

well obviously, but there is no reason at all to think that it can successfully evaluate a corner infielders ability after 1 season.

couple that with the fact the brewers have a SIGNIFICANTLY worse defensive player at maybe the most premium defensive position on the field, and I think just that in general would be next to impossible to overcome.

throw in braun, an okay defensive catcher (not significantly better than mccann) and a "you-get-about-what-you-see" defensive 1B in fielder and i just don't think they can overcome the diff in defense out of the SS position.

it's the same reason why we would be way, way worse with McLouth in CF instead of Bourn.

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08-23-2011 , 05:01 PM

#8811

hard2tel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

There's a lot of reasons why a rookie will suffer defensively when he comes in to the league

No experience with the teammates, no history with athletes of that caliber, guys hit it harder, more accurately, bunt better, are smarter players, etc etc

ahhh ok that makes sense.

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08-23-2011 , 05:01 PM

#8812

tdomeski

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

A lot of our poor fielding stats are surely reflected by our CF/LF rotation for a lot of the year

this

and i believe we should assume Prado is getting better every game he plays at LF (not a bad assumption for a defensive athlete of his caliber).

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08-23-2011 , 05:03 PM

#8813

C-Viggity

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An area Fangraphs has the Braves as particularly bad:

RngR (range runs): The number of runs above or below average a fielder is, determined by how the fielder is able to get to balls hit in his vicinity.

How does this match with the eye test?

[Worth noting the Brews are particularly good here]

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08-23-2011 , 05:05 PM

#8814

tdomeski

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

uggla + mcLouth + freeman

emphasis added intentionally

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08-23-2011 , 05:20 PM

#8815

Sandviper23

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Uggla is only 1 HR away from the NL lead.

Pujous did miss a little time this year at 31.

Mike Stanton, same age as Heyward, sits on 30 homers as well.

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08-23-2011 , 05:36 PM

#8816

Sandviper23

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Tonight's Lineup.

Bourn CF
Prado LF
McCann C
Uggla 2B
Jones 3B
Hinske 1B
Gonzalez SS
Heyward RF
Minor P

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08-23-2011 , 05:40 PM

#8817

C-Viggity

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Freeman hurt?

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08-23-2011 , 05:58 PM

#8818

SoulPower

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havent checked recently, but earlier there was a good chance of a rainout/delay

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08-23-2011 , 06:00 PM

#8819

mosdef

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

Freeman hurt?

He's been reading the thread and pulled out of the game to work on his positioning. GREAT JOB GUYS!

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08-23-2011 , 06:01 PM

#8820

mosdef

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Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Viggity

I know people don't trust UZR, but god it sure is better than conventional fielding stats like errors and assists

I prefer to rely on LaserBeam's feelings.

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08-23-2011 , 06:09 PM

#8821

Pwn_Master

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Nyjer ranks great, but other than that, think UZR ranks every other Brewers starter anywhere from slightly below average to terrible over their career. Relying on 80% of a season of UZR instead is obviously bad, so I don't get the argument that defensive metrics say the eye test of Brewers homers is wrong.

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08-23-2011 , 07:31 PM

#8822

PocketChads

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Only second baseman ever with 5 straight seasons of 30 home runs? Dan The Man Uggla.

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08-23-2011 , 07:33 PM

#8823

PocketChads

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He hit one onto the street last night, but in BP today he hit it over the street and onto one of those rooftop bleachers.

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08-23-2011 , 08:25 PM

#8824

hard2tel

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Wait, Heyward is hitting 8th, behind AGon?

...

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08-23-2011 , 08:42 PM

#8825

Benholio

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At least the position in the lineup isn't nearly as bad of a mistake as leaving him on the bench. I know it was only because of an injury that he's in there anyway, but I'll take it.

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