The loophole is the way I use the hidden bid feature, but that's not a glitch. A glitch is something unintentional, and this isn't, it's just a really bad feature of the site.
I completely agree there should only be one X, but there's not.

That there are multiple hidden bid indications and that not everyone caught on to this, even after two weeks of drafting, is why I brought this to your attention. Once Karak reacted the way he did, I knew it would develop the way it has, but I was simply notifying you guys of something that needed changing.

the only faces drunk karak owns have geometry in 7 hours

what does this even mean

my mind is [x] blown

You have my assurance that I won't cheat, that you will not need to be the police. I've been in plenty of MTT leagues and other leagues on this site, and have never had an issue.

my head hurst

That's really twisting my words around. I said that what he did was technically not cheating, but that he was a weasel. What he did was not in the spirit of the league and those that were effected (not just me) deserve to be compensated. But since what he did was not technically cheating and we don't have a history of Fifield being a cheat/weasel, i have a hard time justifying a punishment since he didn't really gain anything, he just hurt a few team owners. Which again, is why those of us effected should get compensated.

Even your first vote, which you took down a few minutes later, was option B like most of us thus far.

Derek Norris.

1) b
2) c

3) f k567

Not really thrilled about the voting procedure. Two salient points, which imo give Karak way too much control over the outcome:

- Karak gets to determine the options. There were basically 6 teams in favor of lowering salaries (the 6 teams affected by fifield's ninja-bumps) and 6 teams agaisnt. Option A and Option B were both what the first 6 teams wanted, not what the latter 6 did. Proposals by the latter 6 teams (50% salary reduction or draft pick compesnation instead of salary reduction ) were not included. It is true that there was an option C (go back to the drawing board) that dissidents could vote, but given that A and B were solutions and C was a non-solution, the first two options were at a large advantage.

- The provision about karak voting for the people who don't get their vote in. I don't understand that at all, why not just go with what the majority of people who voted decides? It's not going to be relevant in this particular vote, but that provision kind of bothers me going forward. Just haven't seen that in any voting system - would be pretty weird if the incumbent president got to cast a ballot for every voter who didn't vote.

That said, I am fine with the outcome here, just something that I think we should change going forward (karak has to include proposals by people who disagree with him on the ballot, and non-voters are excluded rather than giving their votes to karak). You've been doing a really great job running things so far karak, but I think that having league votes resemble a real democracy rather than a sham democracy will help keep everyone happy and the league running smoothly going forward.

I give up. I can't do anything right. Sorry guys, but I don't have the time to iron all the little details out. From now on, someone else make up the proposals.

I have finals coming up, and I don't have the time to appease everyone's tiniest desire in every part of the league process. I was going to vote for people because if I am going to spend 5+ hours of my time that I don't have yesterday fixing problems for this league because one person angleshot and the other went off the deep end, then you can spend 30 seconds choosing what to vote for when we try to resolve something with the league.

And if you don't like my proposals, just vote for C. It has to be a MAJORITY vote (which was in my post), so anything with less than 7 votes will not win.

All that said, I don't have time to deal with all these issues anymore. I'm sorry. I'll be taking a back seat from now on, and hopefully exit and Pecota can fill in the gaps.

I have put an insane amount of time into this league, and it seems like it simply isn't enough. I don't have any more.

And sergsz I take offense to the insinuation that I am gaming the voting process to benefit my own team and am intentionally keeping things off the ballot which I disagree with. Huge ****ing offense. And don't try and say that's what you didn't mean, because you did. We discussed all the issues, and it was quite clear we had to fix it somehow. Exit and I threw around the idea of scaling the %s back (and from my reading I thought most were against 50%) and we agreed to put it on the ballot.

Dude, I'm sorry - I certainly did not mean to imply that you were doing a bad job. I think this leagues is working out great, a couple stumbles that were not at all your fault notwithstanding.

And I appreciate the amount of time you have put in. It's just that I don't think you should be able to trade in that effort for having more power than the other voters in the voting process. That just doesn't make sense to me, and makes this league more of an autocracy than a democracy imo. Which is fine for the most part since you seem to have good judgment, but I still think having major league changes democratically decided is preferable (in no small part because it will keep the people who lose the votes content knowing that the process is fair).

I do have more power than everyone else in the league, and for good reason (because we can't rely on getting everyone together to make every little decision and/or everyone to think out and spend time ironing out the detail of every decision). If you didn't know that until now, then you didn't read the constitution very well.

However, I didn't construe the voting process in any way to disenfranchise anyone of any power they were given in the league constitution.

Me too. Where did I say anything to the contrary? How else do you propose that I create proposals for vote? Include everyone's idea and then we have the vote go 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 4? We need to have a majority and someone needs to have the power to set the voting schedule. It's how most legislatures work, and it's how it should work here.

Sergz, current voting system aside, can you please post what alternative solutions you'd like to see implemented?

Sorry, but when I realized yesterday that this league was affecting my RL by taking up time I didn't have and stressing me out thinking about it, it really started to tilt me. So yes, I'm a little overreactive and on edge at the moment. Combine that with the impending stress of finals and transfer applications in the next 4 weeks, and it gets worse.

drunk karak >>>> sober karak

let's just get this vote over. let the majority rule and move on. commish and exit are doing way too much work and are vastly underappreciated.

And if I don't hear from thunder's co-manager by this afternoon, the team is Coff's for $150 and that $$ will go to Thunder's co-manager. The fact remains that Thunder posted that he was a) quitting the league (which, in essence, means he speaks for his entire team, including his co-manager) and b) eating his part of the buy-in, so I feel like I've gone beyond the call. Please don't expect us to jump through hoops to get refunds for a team that ragequits in the future, it was just because of the co-manager and unique situation here.

Pecota - i'm fine with the solution to this issue, i don't want a revote or anything. I would have preferred either draft pick compensation or much lower level of salary adjustment (something like 50%), but obviously the 6 affected teams are pretty strongly united in favoring the current solution, so they would have had a very good chance of prevailing regardless of the voting system.

Karak - yes, we need someone to outline the options for votes, and that someone can be you. It's just that the two substantive options you proposed were minor variations of the option that the 6 afffected teams favored, and other discussed solutions that were favored by the 6 unaffected teams were not featured at all. Obviously you have time constraints and it's unfair to expect you to outline every minor possibility, but if you have two major options and two major camps, one option should reflect what one camp wants and the other option should reflect what the other camp wants. I don't think following that general premise would make it more time-consuming for you.

And the part where you get to vote for any non-voter obviously has the potential to skew any voting process greatly. I do agree that you should have more power than other league owners, but that power should be exercised in having the discretion to decide minor issues on your own, not in having disproportionate control over larger issues put up for league vote. At least that's the impression I got from the constitution.

I know you are busy, and like I said, I think you've been doing a great job with this league. Just going forward, I think everything would be smoother if we can make these adjustments to league votes, and i don't think making these adjustments will cost you any time.

Sounds like I created a good incentive to get everyone to vote on time (HINT HINT).

Ha ha, I know, and I was kind of hoping that's all that was for. Just wasn't sure if you were ever planning to exercise that right.

Current vote tally on Karak's initial proposal:

Exit: 1.) C, 2.) A
sergz: C, B
Primetime: B, A
Karak: B, A
geoffras: B, A
a_r: C, C
Levarkin: B, A
Pecota: B, C
Fifield: C, A
nutshot: B, C

Total:

Question 1

Six for B

Four for C

Question 2

Six for A

One for B

Three for C

There are currently two votes pending (thayer, awesomer), since Coff isn't eligible (correct?).

Edit: Do nutshot and awesomer only get one vote between them since they are co-owners? That would make sense, but I wasn't sure if nutshot was voting with that in mind.

Yeah we only vote once.

We're missing two votes from your tally, but they belong to Jokes and Thay3r. That'll be 12 total.

A wins for question 2, since even with the endorsement of C from those two guys, A would win 6-5. Unless we demand a majority, in which case we'd need one vote for A. A plurality is fine though, IMO.

As for question 1, one vote for B wins it for B, whereas two votes for C would split it. That's fine, we'll go back to the drawing board if we need to.

So if we can get those votes from Jokes and Thay3r, and soon, we might well have this settled (not to mention Thay3r is on the clock). I volunteer to go through the records for the timestamps to save Exit the trouble if everyone is okay with that.