You're right it was Jon who initially raised the issue. However in spending this amount of time discussing it you've not provided any evidence there was no substantive change in maths and science studies post 1100. It's one thing to tell someone they are wrong but surely it's better to show them why.

You continually not doing this suggests you aren't as interested in attacking prejudices as you claim as to attack prejudice you bring your best arguments not those that merely entail pointing and calling.

As it is I'm apologizing for wasting your and Original Positions time itt.

That's not what was written.

"After 1100? Nothing! That's because the culture dictated a different set of values"

The suggestion is that Islamic cultural values are so bad that they have produced nothing for nearly a thousand years.

Jon_Midas is from a Jewish background. Are Jewish people generally taught that Muslims are culturally inferior ?

I don't know but I suspect not.

So while I agree that we can agree that it is extremely unlikely that no mathematics or science advances were made in Islamic states in the last 1000 years I'm deciding to interpret it more weakly as there being a significant change in that progress before and after 1100. So you are right but then you are inferring that it's because Jon is from a Jewish background and I suspect you think that Jews believe that Muslims are culturally inferior.

So while I'm guilty of taking a weaker interpretation you're guilty of wanting to take one that fits your position and rather than point out why this is wrong you just point and call names making claims that Jon's position is racist aternatively you could point to new maths an science that developed under Islam since 1100 but you seem not interested enough to.

I am not inferring anything I just asked the question. Jon clearly believes that Muslims are culturally inferior and have been for the last thousand-odd years. He is from a Jewish background who suddenly posted this from nowhere. This thread was intended to be a "big up" of Jewish people nothing else. As someone of Muslim parentage I find Jon's views highly offensive and Islamophobic. Would Jewish posters see it any other way if I posted his views the other way around AGAINST Jews ?

You aren't inferring anything but you are claiming what Jon clearly believes?

How are you doing that without inferring anything.

He posted what he posted. No "inference" is required.

did he say that Muslims are clearly inferior to Jews because if he didn't you're inferring it.

No he doesn't need to support that.

No one has to support the intellectual validity of any such group.

My understanding of the intent of this thread was to start this kind of conflict while seemingly freeing oneself from the responsibility of doing so.

Ah, so at least we find out why you care so much when people say anything related to Islam.

Why would he not? He said that jon was wrong. A single counter-example would have at least gotten the conversation going. Instead, he's just being contradictory and accusing others of being racist. If his goal was to troll and be inflammatory without interest in true discussion, then this makes sense. But if his goal was to actually get others to understand and believe that jon was wrong, he's going about this entirely wrong.

You might be right, but you are still perpetuating uneeded conflict when asking them to show evidence to validate any certain group in a such a context.

Its seems yours and op point is its not prejudice to point these things out, you might be right, but its unintelligent to knowingly project such conflict.

My worry is the daily slaughter of people we are all connected to.

Yeah, next time there's a terror attack I hope ganstaman thinks about what he's done.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson says in that video, that around the 1100 mark, a person or people (I don't recall) started to claim that all math and science was the work of the devil (or something like that). So it was religious beliefs that slowed advancement in these areas.

However, I'm not an expert on this. I just watched a video on the internet...

Probably related to the fact that we like money and gambling so much?

Also, I'm not sure how one can gauge "cultural superiority", as this seems to be a totally subjective thing. I certainly don't think any culture is superior to any other culture.

However we can probably say, objectively, that certain cultures have historically contributed more in certain areas. For instance, Native Americans have probably contributed more to farming practices than say, the Vikings. That doesn't mean that Native Americans are better than Vikings. Vikings probably contributed a lot to the advancement of sailing and whatnot.

Aztecs and open-heart surgery comes to mind.

This would be a brilliant topic of discussion in the history thread. Much of the science and math achievements of our time hailed from the regions of North Africa and the Middle East. From Muslim and Non Muslim scholars alike

Man the Jewish are on point always

referring to this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

"His 11th century book titled The Incoherence of the Philosophers marks a major turn in Islamic epistemology. The encounter with skepticism led al-Ghazali to embrace a form of theological occasionalism, or the belief that all causal events and interactions are not the product of material conjunctions but rather the immediate and present Will of God."

this recent discussion should be moved to a different thread. Its a good topic IMO

Anyways more Jews are running deep in the WSOP and we are not bringing it to light

There are lots of examples which show up Jon Midas's ignorance/bigotry. Try google mate.

"People "x"" have achieved nothing in a thousand years is racist trolling.

Well don't post ignorant bs then.


Islam is not a culture it's a worldwide religion. Your categorisation has no validity. "Jewish" is not really a culture either as that's worldwide as well. There will be little meaningful cultural similarity between Chinese Jews and those in Britain.

I'm not interested in an actual answer. I was trying to teach you how to not be a troll. I don't know why you keep resisting.

Nope, still a culture. Sure, there are exceptions, people who follow the Jewish religion who are of a different culture. But overall, it's still a culture as there are many things shared amongst Jews even from different places (foods, traditions, language).

He wasn't the one to say that Muslims were culturally inferior:

If you're not interested in the answer that makes you the troll.


This is what Jon Midas wrote about Muslims


"After 1100? Nothing! That's because the culture dictated a different set of values/behaviors."

It is ignorant bigoted cr*p.

If Jon_Midas didn't intend to offend with this stuff then he should have the grace to retract it and apologise. Instead he's made some sort of feeble "I didn't say that" excuse.

I'm sorry that you are offended cwocwoc, but I didn't say any of the things that you have inferred. It seems like you are projecting.

Try rereading my posts and watching the original video that I posted ITT, which I was paraphrasing from. Then, you might better understand the context of that post.

Your inflammatory comments claiming that I am ignorant and a bigot seem unwarranted. Please try to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way.

If you look at the sentence right before that, you will find the context. That is generally a good rule to follow when trying to engage in a meaningful conversation.

This does not say that muslims accomplished nothing in 1000 years. It says that muslims have accomplished nothing in the areas of math, science, etc, in 1000 years. If you disagree with that, please provide some evidence ITT to prove your point.

Wrong again. I'm trying to promote the discussion that you are refusing to have. That makes me an anti-troll, really.