MB's characterization of NR's position is also very flawed. In a part of a post that he snipped above:

Oh, the irony... Nobody is using absolute terms but you, but I'm going to characterize your beliefs as being absolute trust. (And then he goes on again about cognitive biases which doesn't really do anything for him, and really hasn't done anything for him throughout the thread.)

MB is basically trying to play both sides of the fence. If NR doesn't let go of his beliefs then he has too much trust in his personal experiences. But he's not asking him to throw away those beliefs, he just wants him to be more circumspect about them. But that circumspection could only be evidenced by doubting his personal experiences enough that he does not hold those beliefs anymore.

It's the same thing as the impossible standard he put forth for believing anything (but don't tell him that he doesn't even hold to that standard himself -- that's just a tu quoque).

Treating "the church" as if it's a single object throughout all time in the way that you have shows simplistic naivete.

Maybe democracy should be abandoned because at one time we voted that black people were only worth 3/5 of a person as a compromise between two positions. Clearly, that shows a failure of democracy as a method of governance.

Congratulations on going all Godwin on yourself. Your mom would be so proud of you.

no

lol, why shouldn't I? The church is about god, god has been there all the time (lol) so why treat the church differently? Same bunch of crooks for at least 2000 years.
Why yes, I would love that to happen.

Don't forget the still ongoing cases of child molestation in europe by catholic priests.

What about my point that the bible itself gives orders to burn sorceresses?

So, if the bible is so horribly wrong in giving moral guidance (unless you hate women and homosexual people) why should I give it any credit?

Why not? Do you have a moral guidance?

Thats not what i said. But sure it could be.

You can if you want. But the consequences of being stupid is stupidity. You might be okay with that. Do you think the British Monarchy today is responsible for the events of the 1700s?

Okay. What type of governance structure would you like?

There are ongoing problems all over the place. I don't see how this changes anything.

What about it? Do I deny that this is in the Bible? No. Have I burned any sorceresses lately? No. Simplistic naivete leads people to make weak and flawed connections while believing themselves to be intelligent and insightful.

I never said you had to give it credit for anything. I'm just pointing out the problems with your perspective. If you choose to continue down the paths that you're on, what chance do I have of stopping you?

This is an excellent post. It's a solid description of how bias is always present in our cognitive processes, and it's also a clear distillation of MB's current argument as I understand it. It will be interesting to read MB's reply.

Good job on this post. It should really help to further the discussion.

Does the wind exist? We can't see it but we can feel it. How do we as poker players decipher the hole cards of our competition without ever seeing them?? By the way they play their hand coupled with our experience and study and discussion with other good players, no? Who is killing the planet (thus themselves, suicide) right now w deforestation, greed, wars, wiping out whole species etc etc etc?? Human beings.


"However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed." - 2 Peter 3:8-10


"Indeed, you have made my days just a few;
And my life span is as nothing before you.
Surely every man, though he seems secure, is nothing but a mere breath.
Surely every man walks about like a shadow.
He rushes around for nothing.
He piles up wealth, not knowing who will enjoy it." - Psalm 39:5, 6



"Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do business and make some profit,” whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears." - James 4:13, 14



"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to get through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.” - Matthew 19:24

http://themindunleashed.org/2013/12/...d-then-he.html

I find it kind of ironic to hear people agreeing with Matt Damon as he reads Zinn's premise that people sheepishly following those with influence.

Well, for the first time in your whole life you are absolutely right. Position yourself in front of a mirror, look yourself in the eyes and repeat your sentence about 2 Million times. Then report back here.

Sry, your other replys were boring, derailing and generally unimportant.

Neeel,

As a rule I think you are correct. However, now that we know this we can rise above confirmation bias and closed mindedness.

I don't think we need to throw out everything we know in order to think critically about our beliefs and biases. I guess it is kind of like the Matrix, being honest with oneself about reality is hard.

Personally, I am more open to other belief systems than I was before. I attribute this mainly to honest discourse with people and sharing of ideas.

Sweet irony. Where would we be without you?

Do you have a moral guidance?

Fear

Sadly, fear.

Well, since god is a worthless, sadistic psychopath I chose Elvis Presley as my moral guidance.

We talk every evening.

You should try it, Elvis so much cooler than this maniac named jehova.

And what are some of these things that Elvis has said to you?

All atheist prey their ass off when the plane is falling

Trust me

How many falling planes have you been in?

I don't think an atheist would pray I would think he would feel "glad" or some what content (that it is finally over) at least not fear because he knows within himself he does not believe in an afterlife so he would have no fear I would imagine and would die a strong character like a granite rock.

I'm an agnostic atheist.

I've been in a plane in extremely dire circumstances and it never occurred to me to pray (or prey, as you surmise).

Id at lest give a shout to the universe to use my one time.

How do they decide which god to pray to?

Because there is only 1 god

One thing to think about in that last milliseconds